Gnats And Camels

[poliphilo]

Judy sent me an article about Pat Robertson's mining interests and how his charities stand to make money out of Katrina. I understand that the man's sailed pretty close to the wind in the past, mixing God's business with his own.

When I was studying the Bible the thing that really stood out for me (and made me feel extremely uncomfortable) was the bit about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I wasn't exactly rich back then, but I was comfortably middle-class and it gnawed at me that I wasn't poor enough to satisfy God. It was reading the Bible that made me a socialist (of sorts.) I didn't (and don't) see how a serious Christian can jump any other way.

You have to go through the Bible with a fine tooth-comb to find (debatable)texts condemning homosexuality, but the ones condemning the rich are lying about on the surface in plain view. The New Testament says that people who concentrate on obscure, fiddly bits of doctrine and miss the bleeding obvious, are "straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel." If Pat read the Bible as closely as he says he does he wouldn't be mining diamonds. He really wouldn't. A wealthy evangelist- it's a contradiction in terms.

Comments

[ex-kalymura481.livejournal.com]

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

How interesting; that lesson has always stuck with me, too. Though, the embellishments of a mountain pass & having to strip your camel of luggage in order to enter Jerusalem appealed to me, so that may be why. I tend to read far too much into the bleeding obvious, rather than miss it…

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I didn't know about the mountain pass. I was taught that "the eye of a needle" might have been the poular name for one of Jerusalem's gates, but I guess I prefer to think of it as an extravagant, not to say, surreal image.

[shullie.livejournal.com]

i use to think i wasn't reading the same book as the rest of the people in the church I use to attend... it got so bad i wanted to stand up and shout in the sermons... i decided perhasp it was time to leave..

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yup, I know what you mean.

The New Testament is a terrifyingly radical document, yet people sit there in their best Sunday clothes without flinching as all this fierce and violent stuff gets poured out over their heads.

"Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear."

[shullie.livejournal.com]

was even worse when i was the one preaching...lol

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Same with me.

One of the (many) reasons why I quit the church was that I felt the congregation and myself were on completely different wavelengths and, no matter what I said, no-one out there was paying me the slightest bit of notice.

[solar-diablo.livejournal.com]

I ws just thinking of that camel-needle allegory yesterday, listening to a conservative talk radio pundit go on and on about how Bush's obscenely low approval rating in the States was the result of a liberal media campaign out to smear him. Last time I checked, this was the same media that spent weeks, months examining every sordid detail of Clinton's sexual escapades and Hillary bemoaned her every misfortune as the result of a right-wing conspiracy.

Conservative, liberal...both sides are bedfellows with the rich and powerful. Both sides would nod at that verse in affirmation, before hopping into their luxury cars and driving back to their mansions. Both sides are clueless.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

As I remember, even though the media did everything in its power to pull Clinton down his approval ratings remained high and constant.

It's a problem with politics in the USA that the way things stand only the very rich need bother to run for high office.

[jackiejj.livejournal.com]

Some evangelists justify their wealth by preaching that if you are doing God's work and trusting God to take care of you, God will reward you with material wealth.

One way televangelists get money is to shame people into sending it in by saying, "God is waiting to reward you! Use your Seed Faith money to show God you're serious! Send us $1000, and you'll get back $10,000!"

I remember seeing a telethon for one of these TV preachers in which they were praising an old woman for sending "half her social security check, stepping out in faith!"

How these people get away with such scams, how they avoid the tax man, is mind-boggling.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I remember, during my charismatic phase, attending a meeting where some damp young executive stood up on the platform and gave us the history of how God had rewarded him by letting him climb the property ladder. Every move was lovingly detailed, every house he'd lived in paraded for our envy.

And even then, in my state of delusion and compliance, I thought to myself- "this is revolting."

Mary and Joseph were poor. Jesus was poor. The disciples were poor. Paul was poor. Everyone in the New Testament was poor.

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

What these slick, sparkling evangelicals do not understand is that the mere act of accumulating wealth and material goods takes away from the act of communing with the Holy Spirit. This is a zero sum game. If you're busy house hunting or car shopping or gaining converts to fleece, you are not using that time to reflect, counsel, pray, and listen within. And if someone uses the gifts of the Holy Spirit to accumulate wealth, that is as bad as denying its presence- it is denying its presence, since that person is using it as a prop, rather than paying attention to its messages.

Sad, really. While I am not exactly 'poor', I am not interested in accumulating vast sums of wealth (which to some, could be seen as a form of 'poverty'. I take care of what is mine, and have energy enough to do my own quiet Work within the community.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I agree. My head's full of New Testament quotes at the moment- and the one that comes unbidden is this- "you cannot serve God and Mammon."

Hell, the impossibility of living the spiritual life while pursuing wealth is a message that's repeated again and again in the scriptures these people regard as infallible and yet they overlook it entirely.

I'm baffled by their wilful blindness. Is Robertson a pious fool or a supremely cynical charlatan or what?

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

RE: the Pat Robertson question, I'd say "Yes" to both. Seriously. A pious charlatan. And a fool, too.

I've been working on a theory about why people are able to both practically worship the Bible and are at the same time blind to the wisdom that the revisers managed not to totally screw up. It's an inside/outside sort of thing. If you are inside a church or cult, the noise of that church or cult totally drowns out any common sense or wisdom that the scriptures might impart. So, the Bible can say over and over again, Blessed are the meek, love your neighbor, you can't worship both God and Mammon, but if the shiny leader and the shiny elders and the shiny congregants are worshipping Mammon and also taking the scripture out of context, the sheeple will follow blindly along.

However, if you have chosen to walk away from the fold, or are an independent and/or intellectual and mystical soul, you are not hemmed in and herded by the revening flock, or drowned out by its noise. You can examine the scriptures at length without peer pressure, and actually follow their wiser tenets. You can be meek, love your neighbor and walk with whatever perception of God you wish. No one will badmouth your choices, condemn your lifestyle, or pressure you to Want and Buy More Stuff.

The Scriptures don't want you to be destitute- they just want you to understand that the pursuit and accumulation of material wealth and goods is futile, and in not doing so, you can actually perceive and interact with the Holy Spirit.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

For most people it's about belonging. The warmth generated by the flock is enough. You're a member of God's club. Turning up on cue is what certifies you as a good person.

My experience as a Christian priest was that I was saying one thing and the people in the pews were hearing something else. Actually, now I think about it, my experience as a Wiccan High Priest was much the same. I was saying "trust your own feelings and intuitions," and they were replying, "whatever you say, Oh wise one."

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

It was what you speak of- my saying one thing and the people I was saying it to hearing something entirely different, or just nodding along without challenging me in any manner- that made me realize that I had to leave the position of HPS.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Like you I have renounced that kind of power. I don't want to be anybody's priest or guru any more.

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

Have you gotten any negative feedback or have been called a 'coward' or worse for abandoning that power? I have- and the ones doing the name calling were the very ones who wanted to give me even more power. Some of them have seen the light, and now understand where I came from. Others have not. Life goes on.

I feel that my leaving ministry was a move made in strength, not in surrender or cowardice. I could see the guru trap opening beneath my feet, the diversion off the Path I was on, and I feel that I have managed to avoid it. There are two types of power: power over (that of priest/esses and ministers) and power within: that of mystics and adepts. I prefer the latter. It cannot be taken away.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I got a bit of flak for leaving the Church, none for leaving my position in Wicca- but that was because it was a gradual down-scaling and withdrawal, not a sudden break.

I have come to think of gurudom as a terrible trap. The teacher gets mired down in his/her own teaching and cannot move on. Besides which, all power, even power exercised benignly, has a corrupting effect on the person who wields it.

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

My withdrawal from Wicca was also gradual, but when the charlatans came along and started wracking havoc in my community, I caught flack because I did not swan in and 'save the day'. Hell, they'd run me off- why the hell would I want to come back? Hypocritical...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I withdrew from the community a good while before I finally gave up running a coven. Ailz and I were quite "famous" for a while- newspaper articles, TV appearances etc- but then it slowly tailed off.

I had realised that fame comes at a price and that if I wanted to sustain it I would have to start selling myself and wearing a mask.

And that the more I wore the mask, the less there would be behind it.

You did the right thing. The only way you could have seen off the predators was to take up the mantle you had already discarded- a retrograde step.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

P.S. When I say "power" I mean "power over". I appreciate your distinction between that and the power that comes from within.

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, and Orel Roberts telling people that if they didn't send money he was going to die...

I know I'm probably going to go to hell...if there is one. But I can't watch any kind of evangelist on t.v. without thinking of the old skit by Burns and Shriver about the Reverend Holey Moley, who could cure you of anything that ailed you. All you had to do was say Halleluiah and put your hands on the radio...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

There is no hell.

Trust me.

The only hell is the one we manufacture in our own minds.

And those evangelists are all of them con-artists.

[saskia139.livejournal.com]

The Old Testament and the New Testament are both *so* clear on the pursuit of wealth and the power of wealth being wrongheaded, misguided, and just plain wrong, and yet we don't listen. The Old Testament is also very very clear that exploiting the poor inevitably means exploiting the *land*, and vice versa. There is plenty of support in Christianity for environmentalism as well as socialism, so why are we sitting on our asses?

Love my tradition, hate the institution. Choir starts again on the 18th. *sigh*

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

People bring their existing prejudices to church and only hear what they want to hear.

Another example of the same thing is that people are convinced (on the strength of having seen a number of bad, sentimental paintings) that Jesus was a soft, gentle, winsome type when the picture you actually get from the gospels is of a man in a ferociously bad temper who goes round thundering at people.

[saskia139.livejournal.com]

I am always amused at the Church's insistence that Jesus was obedient and submissive and always did The Will of His Father when it's obvious that, to the people around him, it looked like he did exactly what he damn well pleased, and too bad if it pissed people off. Including his mum. *g*

Same with Therese of Lisieux, actually. Stubborn little bitch who told the Pope he ought to let her into the convent early.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It's a popular fallacy that holiness equates with niceness. Most saints and prophets are "perfectly frightful" people.