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[personal profile] poliphilo
Religious movements swiftly go out of date. They begin by challenging the status quo, then, once society has caught up with them, slip into conservatism as they defend their aging insights against the onrush of the new.

Wicca began as a challenge to the mores of the 1950s. It was always a little old-fashioned- with a whiff of geriatric naughtiness- and was soon overtaken by the sexual revolution of the 1960s. It was reinvented in the 70s, by Starhawk and others, as a vehicle for left-wing protest and feminist assertion. Now, unless I'm missing something, there's nothing much left in it except a nostalgia for ye olden dayes.

Charmed is the monument erected over its grave. If the US entertainment industry thinks something is safe for the mainstream, you can be pretty certain it's no longer prancing and kicking.

Date: 2005-02-02 05:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arielstarshadow.livejournal.com
Don't forget - Wicca (in a very strange and completely inaccurate form...not that it's any more accurate on "Charmed") showed up on Buffy the Vampire Slayer before Charmed was around, unless I am getting my timeline confused.

I'm not sure I agree with you about Wicca no longer being prancing and kicking because it's on mainstream TV. If you think about it, it could be called progress. After all, is it really that much fun to be persecuted?? At least pagan religions are becoming somewhat more acceptable; no more burning people at the stake, or automatically assuming that they are worshipping Satan. Sure, there are still Christian fundamentalists out there who haven't a clue, but I think that more and more people are at least becoming knowledgeable enough to know that pagans aren't immediately equal to "evil."

Date: 2005-02-02 05:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catvalente.livejournal.com
Wicca began in the late 19th century, invented by a fellow by the name of Gardner.

And Wicca may be fairly lame and have devolved into a bunch of heirarchical, dogmatic, organized folks with high self esteem issues, but the calm, quiet, unassuming pagan--even one who knows the root of the word and uses it with a rueful smile--does exist. Maybe that's the revolution--we don't have to wear our religion around our neck, studded with magic crystals.

And that young lady will never be on TV.

Date: 2005-02-02 06:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jackiejj.livejournal.com
When we experience an overwhelming spiritual moment, we never want it to end.

There's a great example, in the New Testament, when Peter (I think) wanted to erect tents at the spot where he'd seen a vision of the Elders.

"The glory of the Lord settled on Mount Sinai."

"Lord, it is good to be here."

tents

I guess what I want to say and am meandering away from is that all religious movements have their start with a moment of miracle that we want to keep. Maybe it's not a miracle, just a wave of joy, or a changed life. But something major happens, and we want to be able to reopen that door.

Sadly, most miracles take us by surprise.

As you once wisely said (I hope I paraphrase correctly): Ritual's purpose is to set up the atmosphere to open the door to miracle again.

But mostly we can't do it. The door may open, but we don't see it. We're fixated on the candles.








For example

I think a wonderful image, very apt, that explains the reason spiritual moments get instantly crystallized into religious doctrine

Date: 2005-02-02 07:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] barbarakitten-t.livejournal.com
damn and blast...this is a wonderful conversation and i want to spend more time here (unfortunately i am at work and need to quit screwing around

[livejournal.com profile] jackiejj says Sadly, most miracles take us by surprise.

i have to disagree with that. it's true that miracles often take us by surprise, but i don't think it's sad.

when i was a senior in high school i had to come up with a motto for my yearbook entry...it was "expect a miracle."

miracles happen all around us every day...and if we are lucky we can have a hand in helping a miracle happen.

i too am a zen pagan. i lit candles for brigid this morning before work...i have a go with the flow life (although occasionally the river gets dammed...)

[livejournal.com profile] poliphilo i think you are maybe a little cynical...charmed is a more sophisticated version of bewitched...

bright blessings and i will try to come back to this discussion later when i have time to think...

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