Romantic Nationalism

[poliphilo]

I've been thinking about English nationalism and how it's becoming respectable to wave the red and white with absolutely no blue in it. The topic is being forced on us by the possibility that the Scots are going to up and leave the Union. Personally, I wish they wouldn't. Scotland may be a very different place from England, but my sense of national identity- my Englishness- wouldn't be what it is without the contribution of myriads of Scots.  The Scots have helped make England and the English have helped make Scotland (the kilt I seem to remember reading was the invention of a Lancashire industrialist.) If Independence happens, are we going to have to regard Boswell's Life of Johnson- the biography of the archetypal John Bull Englishman- as a foreign book? And what about Sherlock Holmes- As English as they come, but created by a Scotsman? How about Long John Silver?  Am I going to have to stop taking a modest pride in the achievements of Hume and Watt and Alexander Fleming? They were all Scots, weren't they? Actually I'm not entirely sure. Hume was definitely Scottish, but the other two? The names sound Scottish, but...And that's a measure of how interlaced the cultures are.  Lots of people who used to be British are going to marched off behind the checkpoints and denied to us. And it works both ways. How do Scots feel about being denied ownership in Shakespeare and all the other thousands of notable Brits who happen to have been born south of the border? Do they really want to be made to feel that London- scene of so many Scottish triumphs- is a foreign city?

Alice Goodman, the librettist, who has good reason to hold the opinion thinks  "the most dangerous thing in the world is romantic nationalism. Not religion, but romantic nationalism". I think she's right.  The smaller the tribe, the cosier, the tweer, the more parochial and bloody-minded. There's part of me that would be very happy to wrap itself in the flag of St George and damn all foreigners, but it's not the best part. 

Comments

[ron-broxted.livejournal.com]

1st point, the kilt was recorded in Roman times. An Englishman named Parkinson or Rawlinson is supposed to have modified it.
2nd point, many of those you term Scots are Lowlanders. Very much not the same thing (says a Teuchter!)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I understand the mill owner introduced it as suitable costume for his hands- less likely to get caught up in the machinery than the traditional plaid. (Some famous guy wrote a book that was published a year or two back about the invention of Scottishness and I read extracts)

Lowlanders, Highlanders- they're all Scots surely, though- as you say- not at all the same thing. (Hey, I've read my Kidnapped!)

[ron-broxted.livejournal.com]

I heard it was that the feile mhor (big kilt) was so cumbersome that working in a furnace meant working naked. As for lowlanders "run rig mor nan gael" the lowlanders great hat for the Gael!

[jfs.livejournal.com]

Something that may have been similar to a kilt was recorded in Roman times but last I saw (about 10 years ago) it wasn't conclusive and most historians don't consider it to be the same as the little kilt. And even if the Romans had something exactly the same, there's no lineage between the two over the 1500 year gap between the two.

If you've references that show otherwise I would love to see them please - I did Jacobean re-enactment for a good while and never found any connection. If there's been new evidence or some that I missed I would be really interested.

[ron-broxted.livejournal.com]

My references would be from things called book. Many years I sold kilts in Laaandaaan to stupid Yanks. 1600 and the MacLeans of Duart had a green, back, white ensemble. There are pre-Culloden mentions. Look at the Glinsk Galloglas, that is defo a kilt! The controversy is over whether there are Clan tartans or just district ones.

[sovay]

There's part of me that would be very happy to wrap itself in the flag of St George and damn all foreigners, but it's not the best part.

"The English, the English, the English are best . . ."

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

"And the flower of the English...."

[michaleen.livejournal.com]

I shall have to point out the obvious: if England wished to be loved by the Scots, then you should have treated them in a civilized fashion. They hated you and for good reason. They hated you so much that even after they had fled exile in Ireland they were positively eager to kill British troops during the American Revolution.

The Scots-Irish militiamen from here, in what was known as "The Back Country", were decisive in the final push against Cornwallis. Our riflemen would aim for the polished steel gorgets worn by British officers. Pierced by a single bullet, they made prized trophies.

Another favorite target were drummer boys. The Brits rather hilariously thought both practices bad sport.

[ibid.livejournal.com]

I would probably move to Scotland as England would become a permamantly Tory country. But it would be a wretch, I am English and I never felt truly at home north of the boarder. If I love England that is the reason why.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

If the Scots go, Wales could follow. Basically, we are fed up of being ruled by people we didn't elect, ie Tories. Socialism, of the old fashioned sort, is ingrained in the Welsh. Hence our free prescriptions and more student-friendly university fees. We also don't like the way the English plundered our natural resources and were rude about our language. And I realise I've said "we" there, when I was actually born English, but it seems I have gone native. :)