The Real Mystery

[poliphilo]

There's no mystery about why the kids did what they did.

The young crave excitement, lack empathy (it's to do with brain chemistry), have a huge sense of entitlement, despise their elders. 

So they smash things up. Everything from bus shelters to social conventions. Some of which is good. 

We've all been there, but we forget- or we cast a retrospective glamour over our youthful shittiness. 

I didn't burn and loot high street shops, but I did things that were, morally speaking, just as bad. Bet you did too.

There's no need to bring poverty into the equation. The PM, the Chancellor and the Mayor of London used to be in a gang called the Bullingdon Club. Their schtick was to get very, very drunk, trash restaurants and assault passers-by.  None of them was poor.

Usually there are restraints in place to keep youthful mischief-making within bounds- to keep the outrages small-scale and local.  For some reason they just failed. 

Why? Why now? That's the real mystery.

Comments

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The bad parenting often goes back generations. The bad parents had bad parents who had bad parents. There needs to be intervention, but who's going to do it? An inspirational teacher? A social worker? The local vicar or imam? I don't have any answers.

We used to have a society in which any one who wanted a job could have one. Then we closed down the heavy industries, put thousands out of work and suddenly we had a working class and no work for them to do.

[michael john grist (from livejournal.com)]

So either the country needs to find some jobs for these people, or it needs to convince them to stop having babies...

Maybe in the mean-time some curfews and bans on gathering in gangs would help.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Curfews and bans on gangs sound OK in theory, but you might find yourself outlawing the boy scouts. How do you differentiate (in law) between a harmless gathering of young people and a gang?

[michael john grist (from livejournal.com)]

I guess the key ingredient is approved adult supervision. Approve the adult to supervise- and any kids gathering with them will be ok.

It's the kids loitering in gangs with nothing to do that cause the trouble- so focus on them. I can't see that there's any argument to be made for kids being allowed out to hang out in the park all night with nothing to do. Of course they're going to get drunk, take drugs, cause trouble. There's nothing else for them to do.

[craftyailz.livejournal.com]

Get drunk, cause trouble - now what does that remind me of? Crossing a river without getting feet wet? We've all done it. Is it bad parenting? I don't think so. It's part of being young. I've never done drugs - but some of the most respectable 50 & 60 year old people I know did a lot of them when they were young. People who are damn good parents. Should parents stop their children having alcohol until they are legal? Keep them in after dark until they leave education? My father believed that until you were earning your own living you had no right to any opinion - but as soon as you were earning you should do all you own thinking; how does that work? How do you learn respect if you're not shown it or taught it? How do you learn to live in society if no one shows you? Why is it the young who are always in the wrong?

[michael john grist (from livejournal.com)]

I'm curious if you'd be for kids hanging around causing trouble in gangs at night, Ailz. I just can't, and never could, see any reason for that to be going on. The night shouldn't belong to feral kids 'just blowing off steam', and maybe knifing a few people, robbing a few things, etc.. It should belong to everyone, and anyone who wants to take a walk. But maybe I have a different idea of what a good society should look like. I'd prefer pubs to close earlier too, and have any public rowdiness dealt with with as close to a zero tolerance approach as possible.

Maybe I'm spoiled living in Japan- where this sort of thing doesn't happen. It's kind of unimaginable here. Sure, salarimen pee in the streets, but street violence is totally rare.

About respect, and whose role it is to show the young how to live in society, I'm with you on that. To raise good kids you need to be a role model. I guess many parents either are not, or are unable to overpower the bad role models kids have in their friends.

I don't have a problem with kids doing some drinking either, but why should it be off in some dark Lord of the Flies-like bus shelter? K & R's model for that always seemed very solid to me. Parents can make and organize those calls. And if parents are not prepared to give up that much time, then why would they have kids in the first place?

[craftyailz.livejournal.com]

No, but there again not all kids hanging round at night are gangs or looking to cause trouble. Often they are hanging round as it's the only place they can all meet up. I did it, Alice did it. Kids like the company of other kids and parents don't usually want half a dozen or more hanging out at their house every night.

What about University students they are often in a groups, drink a lot, are rowdy etc., but rarely kill anyone - except themselves maybe.

As for shutting pubs earlier, there are lots of out of town pubs that are closing down. Quite a few round here have gone. Imagine living next door to someone who has their mates round and drink at home instead of the pub - noisy until late or what.

While alcohol is seen as acceptable, in a way that cigarettes aren't nowadays, people will drink. But there again drugs being illegal doesn't stop anyone.

As for K & R you should ask them sometime what they got up to when they were kids.