Against Dylan Thomas

[poliphilo]

Actually I disagree with Dylan Thomas. Old people who rage against the dying of the light are a pain. Especially if it's not so much raging as whining. When a person past eighty goes all "why me?" about their failing health my over-riding feeling is that they're letting the side down. Come on, you old bastard, this is part of the test. What is required of you now is dignity. You knew it was coming, you've had plenty of time to prepare for it, so pull yourself together and set us a good example. 

Comments

[michaleen.livejournal.com]

Thomas died young, though. When you are in your 30s or 40s, you should be raging. Your mortality is already staring you down, whether you have sense enough to notice or not.

Otherwise, I agree completely. My maternal grandfather refused treatment for the cancer that claimed him at 94 and he was allowed to die at home, in the bed he had slept in all of his life. They say you cannot take it with you, but dignity seems to be an exception to that rule. The man accepted his mortality with phenomenal grace and poise.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Thomas ran towards death- at least that's the interpretation I place on his chosen lifestyle.

My father knew he was failing and (without the support of supernatural belief) faced up to it with stoicism and humour. It can be done.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I disagree with you both, I think! I don't believe you can prescribe how someone ought to face death. It's a journey you just can't take in someone else's shoes, no matter how great your powers of empathy. Death is the experience that we all share, but each death is also unique and in some mysterious sense secret.

I also recall that King Lear on the heath was a right pain - but all that raging did him a power of good in the end, and without the expense of a therapist!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Of course you're right. In the end a death is the business of the person who's undergoing it- and nobody else.

But I think we all have our opinions about what constitutes a good death and what doesn't. The classical and Christian traditions both had codes relating to dying. At it's best it was an art form. When Addison was on his way out he invited his friends round to "witness how a Christian can die". I think there's something rather splendid about that.

[treehavn.livejournal.com]

But I think we all have our opinions about what constitutes a good death and what doesn't.

I'm still fond of the line from Buffy, about dying in your bed surrounded by fat grandchildren.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd be happy with that.

[michaleen.livejournal.com]

I must agree that each death must be unique, even as each individual life is unique. Yet, I think some people are nothing short of inspirational, as they approach the end, while others seem intent on dragging down those around them and generally making everyone as miserable as possible. I have seen both and think one behavior more desirable than the other, so much so that I think some should seriously consider being a bit less unique in certain non-helpful ways.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I think some should seriously consider being a bit less unique in certain non-helpful ways.

That's a lovely way of putting it! And one that applies at all stages of life.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

Perhaps in a society that overlooks the elderly, ill-health is the only way of attracting people's attention. Otherwise, I'm in agreement.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I have in mind a person who has been behaving like a prima donna all his life....

[sorenr.livejournal.com]

In a way I agree with you. At some point Death has to be embraced, however scary it may be. My grandfather when he was on his deathbed was completely resigned that he would die soon, yet he was so scared of it that he could not bear not to hold my grandmother's hand. Whenever she had to leave her chair by his bedside to go to the loo or to sleep, he would be fidgeting around in his semi-conscious state, and the moment she returned he would calm down again. He raged not against the dying of the light, but against the idea of facing it without his wife. I still hold that to be the most beautiful love story I have ever heard or be-witnessed.

On the other hand. My dad is 62. He has cancer. He breathes through a hole in his throat and eats through a tube that goes through his abdomen to his stomach. I want him to rage. Rage like nothing ever seen before. He needs to rage; WE need him to rage. I need him to rage against the dying of the light.

Is he an old man? By appearances, yes. He has looked older than his years for a long time, mainly because of too much alcohol and tobacco. He has been retired for the past 15+ years and he really does seem to be an old man, even to me. Is he old enough to die, though? Certainly not! My mother needs him, my nephews and niece need him. I need him, even though we have never been close.

Sorry for getting emotional on your journal, but I guess the "dying of the light" theme just triggered something in me.

I agree with your entry, though; old age should NOT burn and rage at close of day.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

As steepholm says, "each death is...unique". There's no single way of dying well. But there are some things- whining, complaining- that are never right. One should aim for dignity, for grace. One should try to edify.

Your grandfather died in such a way.

Our culture is fascinated by death, but we don't talk nearly enough about how to do it. Death is always something that happens to the other fellow.

[sorenr.livejournal.com]

Death, he scares me not.
Safely I wander the path of Life.
If I am there, then he is not.
And if he's there, then I am not.

I can't remember which Danish poet wrote this (only better in the original), but it pretty much sums up my emotions about Death. I'm not afraid of Death, though I'm quite terrified of dying, which is another matter all-together.

I was there when my grandfather died. It was beautiful. Suddenly the struggling sound of his rasping lungs stopped and there was quiet. Peace and quiet. He, as the ancients might have said, died well. If only we could all go like that; in due time and surrounded by our family and friends. Under such circumstances I believe I too could die well. I pity those who have to pass on by themselves, though; that must be a terribly lonesome business.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I like the poem.

I have been at deathbeds- though not of anyone I was close to. The approach to death can be distressing- but not- in my experience- the actual act of dying. I'm not afraid of death. Like Peter Pan I think of it as an "awfully big adventure".

[oakmouse]

Remember his father went blind late in life, and as a result went from being a vital active man to being depressed and housebound. I've always thought the poem was as much about that as about his father's immanent death.

Also, having worked in nursing homes? The people who refuse to just sit quietly and dwindle away to nothing actually are the ones who stay more active, and live longer, with or without health problems. The ones who sit down and stare at the wall are the ones who die easily or who wind up spending years staring at the wall of a nursing home because they become too inert to manage self-care.

Finally, Thomas? Didn't whine. He raged, yowled, sobbed, bitched, leered, and mocked, yes. Whined? No.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking about Thomas's death. I believe his last words were something like, "Twenty whiskies: is that a record?" There's a certain magnificence about the way he rushed towards his end.

I've worked in a care home and a hospice. I'm all for people staying active for as long as they can. Moping in a corner does not win my seal of approval. I think one should live life to the full and accept death- when it comes- without dragging one's feet or making an unseemly fuss. Our ancestors- some of them- knew there was an art to dying well.

[sorenr.livejournal.com]

Hehe... I love that you used the same phrase - "dying well" - as I did in my last comment.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It's the last thing we do, we might as well make the most of it. :)

[oakmouse]

The classic quote is "I drank eighteen (or fifteen) straight whiskies; I believe that is the record." However, the people who were present when he lapsed into the coma claimed from the first that he didn't say it. One of them said that the last coherent words he spoke were the famous quote about how the men in his village had their arms around one another and were singing.

I didn't mean to say that you said he himself whined; I was trying to say that "whine" is about the last verb I would associate with him. However, I was in a hurry and didn't make myself clear.