Job Description

[poliphilo]

The work of a priest- any priest in any religion- is to stand at the edge of the world and point. She is there to remind everybody else that there is an edge. She is a sign. And that's why she wears distinctive clothes and lives apart.

Anything else she does- social work, political work, anything that implicates her in the business of the world- is an add-on and a distraction.

Comments

[queen-in-autumn.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm. . . Interesting perspective. I definitely agree that being on the edge and pointing to it is part of the work of a priest/ess -- but it seems to me that without also being engaged in the world in some way that is consistent with the basic tenets and values of her faith she and all that lies beyond the edge risk being labeled as irrelevant.

If a priest/ess does nothing but point to "out there" then it implies that the "out there" is not also "here with us." And it is. It must be if there is to be any point to spirituality.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

But can there be a more radical challenge to the values of the world than to be utterly irrelevant?

Perhaps the most perfect kind of priest is the yogi who sits by the road for years doing absolutely nothing- or the medieval anchoress who has herself walled up in her cell.

[queen-in-autumn.livejournal.com]

I think I understand what you're trying to say here -- and I don't want to dismiss out of hand the virtue of that lifestyle, especially for the individual who commits to it -- but ultimately I don't think it's a meaningful "challenge to the values of the world." And I don't think it has that much value to most others as a spiritual example.

It's all too easy to walk by those people and dismiss them as having a heroic vocation ("not for someone like me") or write them off as mad.

To me, the priest who lives among the poor, sharing their poverty, and agitating on their behalf -- again, while remaining true to the tenets of his faith -- has far more to say about why people should care about the "out there" at all. The priestess whose courage and compassion in standing beside the sick and the abused, helping them find healing, demonstrates the love of the Divine far more powerfully than the one walled up in a convent on the edge of town.

To a less dramatic extent, simply living one's life in the community while demonstrating the virtues of one's faith show that it's possible to be both "worldly" and connected to the Divine. That the extra effort it takes to make and nurture that connection can have a real, positive impact on daily life and create a more loving, just, and beautiful world for all.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I'm drawn to extremes, I suppose. My favourite saint- at least the one I've had most to do with down the years- is my namesake, St Anthony of Egypt- the founder of western monasticism.

And you don't get much more austere- and world-denying- than he was.

Of course I'm very far from being austere myself. I was for ten years a very worldly- not to say carnal- Anglican clergyman- and after that an- equally worldly and carnal- Wiccan.

I'm glad to see this debate is continuing on your blog as well. :)

[michaleen.livejournal.com]

To a less dramatic extent, simply living one's life in the community while demonstrating the virtues of one's faith show that it's possible to be both "worldly" and connected to the Divine.

With all due respect, that is the crux of the biscuit, isn't it? I find no universal agreement that it is indeed possible to be both "worldly" and connected to the Divine. By contrast, there does seem to be some broad agreement among the world's spiritual traditions that removal from this world, in so much as such things are practicable, is at least a necessary precursor to realizing that Divine connection.

If realization of the Divine propels one into the world, to minister unto the world, to be a light unto the world, then it's not something about which an outsider can have a meaningful opinion. However, I don't think we can insist on active participation in this world being necessary or even desirable, at least from a spiritual perspective.

[queen-in-autumn.livejournal.com]

By contrast, there does seem to be some broad agreement among the world's spiritual traditions that removal from this world, in so much as such things are practicable, is at least a necessary precursor to realizing that Divine connection

Can you give some examples?

There's a tradition of hermits/religious orders in most traditions, I think -- but I'm not aware that "removal from the world" is a "precursor".

I certainly don't see it in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Yes, there's a strong cloistered tradition in Christianity, but again I see it as the exception, even for priests. It's their job to be with their flocks.

Then again, I could have been pushing poliphilo's original comment too far out of his original intent. There's probably a space between "on the edge" and "engaged in. . . the business of the world" where most priests function quite well.

[michaleen.livejournal.com]

Jesus of Nazareth is traditionally a very special case, but even he retired to the desert before beginning his ministry. Moses spent his time in solitude, too. Here are the roots of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. Whether those that came after followed in those footsteps is almost beside the point.

Among the more formalized systems of Divine realization we have Patanjali as a primary example, who certainly insisted that one must escape the worldly milieu. I think most all schools of Buddhism inculcate a "removal from the world", at least to some degree, as a necessary precursor to realization. And there are still Daoists sitting on mountains in China to this day.

I think, at least in practice, almost anyone can serve in a clerical capacity. The question is whether the practice of priestcraft guarantees a meaningful connection to the Divine, something more than just the trivial sense that "we're all God's creatures". I took Tony's original post as suggesting that a priest or priestess should be a creature of Holiness, rather than a mere functionary. In this, I agree.

[daisytells.livejournal.com]

Yes, the Edge! If I understand you correctly, then there is something wrong with most pastors' deathbed visits. They ought to be easing the passing by reminding the sick and suffering person that they are crossing over the edge to a better place, and that there is a big reward even for a rough crossing.
It is so easy to forget that when pain is in the picture...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think it depends what the sick person him/herself believes. I don't think a pastor should impose his belief on anyone, but if the person is already a believer then he should encourage that belief.

We're too much afraid of death. I don't think we should be.

[daisytells.livejournal.com]

Agreed!

[oakmouse]

Mrf. I have a couple of serious quibbles with this, in a friendly sort of way.

What about a priest/ess whose work is solely to serve the gods? Such priest/esses don't need to live apart or wear distinctive clothing, nor do they need to serve as signposts for other humans. Some of them do so, but it's a matter of their personal vocation rather than any external definition of their role. I say that from direct personal knowledge because I'm one of them myself. Some of us are there to *be* the edge: not to point to it but to participate in its manifestation. Some of us are there to be a hollow reed for the gods.

Also in the Rosicrucian tradition, which has been participated in by a good many clergy down through the years, one is specifically enjoined to wear the clothing habitual to the country in which you dwell, and to avoid distinguishing yourself from others by unusual dress or behavior. (I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here, but I'm also a participant in that tradition, although not in a priestly context.)

So although I think you have a very good point about certain types of priest/ess, I don't think it's true of all of us or of all religions.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think we're talking about much the same thing- but looking at it from different angles. If the gods want you for a hollow reed (I like that image) then surely it's because they want their music to be heard by mortals.

Either way we're talking about the priest/priestess as someone who acts as a conduit/bridge/connection between the worlds.

This stuff is diffcult to talk about. We have to use imagery- and it's never sharp enough- and one image excludes other images.

I take your point about costume. There'll always be exceptions to the "rule".

[oakmouse]

If the gods want you for a hollow reed (I like that image) then surely it's because they want their music to be heard by mortals.

Mostly not, actually. A lot of my work has to do with participating in and fostering the flows of certain energies. Another big bunch has to do with the realms of the ancestors, and although some of that definitely involves mortals they're not incarnate mortals.

(Thank you, BTW. I don't remember where I got the image but it resonates very powerfully for me.)

Either way we're talking about the priest/priestess as someone who acts as a conduit/bridge/connection between the worlds.

This stuff is diffcult to talk about. We have to use imagery- and it's never sharp enough- and one image excludes other images.

On both of these points I think we definitely agree. (And ironically, for me personally, the last sentence of your original post is absolutely true. I'm just not sure it's true for every priest/ess.) It's damnably difficult to talk about, not least because some of the process of being a bridge between worlds is really quite nonverbal.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

We do what we do....

I left the Anglican priesthood because it was too much about being in the world and then I left the Wiccan priesthood because it was too much about being out of the world.

Then, for a good long while I was in denial.

But priesthood is for ever. You don't resign. It's something you're stuck with.

[daisytells.livejournal.com]

"Thou art a priest forever"....Definitely!

[oakmouse]

"Thou art a priest forever, unto the order of Melchizadek." My ordination didn't include that line, but my consecration did. And yes, definitely, it isn't something you do --- it's something you are. It doesn't go away. It's just a question of how you're serving now.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

"Its just a question of how you're serving now".

And that's what this post is about, really. I no longer belong to any organisation or community, but I'm still a priest. So what does that mean exactly? What am I supposed to do?

[oakmouse]

Good question. What do *you* want to do? How do you, personally, define priesthood and service? I say that not to put you on the spot (it doesn't matter whether you tell me the answers) but because I've encountered many clergyfolk who didn't really settle comfortably into their priesthood until they worked that out and put it into practice. Do you *want* an organization or community? Do you want a congregation? Do you want to be a contemplative, and/or serve the divine directly in some fashion? There's no need, after all, to stick to the present Christian model of priestly function if it gives you hives or even if it merely fails to satisfy you; there are lots of choices to select from among, and some of them are very interesting indeed.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I walked away from priesthood twice. I thought that was the end of the story. But apparently it isn't. I don't know what happens next. Now that I've raised the issue, publicly, like this, my first instinct is to run and hide- like Jonah.

[oakmouse]

Running and hiding has its validity. You may need a quiet period to let this bubble and stew.

[sovay]

The work of a priest- any priest in any religion- is to stand at the edge of the world and point.

What made you start thinking about priests?

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure. I'm a priest myself- Anglican and Wiccan- though it's been a while now since I last "practised". I suppose I feel the need to reflect upon my own priesthood- on what the essence of priesthood is- and whether I still fit the criteria.

They say priesthood is indelible- once a priest always a priest.