Time Out

[poliphilo]

And so I sat there with my tin of treats and no-one came calling. I guess Muslims just don't do Halloween.

I've been thinking a lot about the Brand/ Ross affair (sorry this is totally Britocentric). Here's my opinions- all 10 of them.

1. What they did was crappy.

2. Bullying, mean-spirited, unfunny, pointless. Talking truth to power is one thing, but Andrew Sachs isn't power- and talking truth to him was completely out of order.

3. Comedy is a dangerous game. I understand how, when you're riffing, you can get on a roll and lose sight of where you're going. That's one reason why Brand's show is pre-recorded- so an editor can take out the bits that don't work/are totally disgusting.

4. I'm sorry Brand went and Ross didn't. Mind you, I don't think it's done Brand any harm. It just adds to his legend.

5. I like Brand. No, let's rephrase that.  I'm slightly in awe of Brand. I think he's an amazing talent. I've never mistaken him for a nice person.

6. His column in this morning's Guardian is headed What a Barmy, hysterical, cosmic week- and it's all about football. Now that's class.

7. I don't like Ross. He's one of those broadcasters I mostly avoid ( Terry Wogan's another). I find him smug.

8. I don't know why the BBC pay him so much money. I think that was always a mistake.

9. Apparently most people under 30 can't see what the fuss is about. I don't fully understand this, but I'm willing to step aside because, after all, they own the future.

10. I don't want to be part of any crusade that's being preached by the Daily Mail.

And now, back to the travelogue.

Comments

[glitzfrau.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm 33, so my opinion probably doesn't count as that of The Youth. But for what it's worth, really can't stand this kind of 'edgy' comedy that makes childish bum and poo jokes, interlarded with good old misogyny and homophobia, and calls it 'pushing the envelope' or 'rebelling against political correctness' or whatever. Telling old men they should kill themselves is nasty and cruel. Humiliating your ex-lovers on air for being slutty enough to sleep with you is misogynistic and vile. Thing is, this was only a step beyond what I often see on Mock the Week or Little Britain or other 'edgy' programmes. I think it went too far, but I think a hell of a lot of other 'edgy' stuff goes too far, too. Here's two links:

Charlie Brooker says being nasty about Kerry Katona is inhumane and petty-minded

Academic points out that the Little Britain emperor has no clothes

The first author is hip, the second young. So you're not alone in your distaste.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Charlie Brooker rocks.

I see Little Britain as being in the tradition of Dick Emery. It used to make me laugh. And some of those characters and catch phrases are indelible. But I think the American show was lazy and misjudged. Take Daffyd out of his village- where everyone was so much hipper (and gayer) than he was- and you completely lose the point.

I think misanthropic comedy has gone about as far as it can go. When everything is edgy and shocking then nothing is.

[jfs.livejournal.com]

thank you for the Charlie Brooker link especially; that's a great article.

I think Brand and Ross have been given a reminder about the nature of celebrity (something which is not related to talent) - the whim of the crowd can turn in a second, and behaviour that had you lauded previously can have you castigated from then on.

[strange-complex.livejournal.com]

I sat there with my tin of treats and no-one came calling.

Yeah, me too - just like last year. It's very disappointing, but at least it means we get to eat all the treats ourselves afterwards! This year I made sure I bought ones I would want to eat myself if necessary, just in case...

I've enjoyed a certain degree of pointing and laughing at both Ross and Brand this week, as I feel both of them rather needed a sharp rap across the knuckles. But I think you're right that they'll bounce back from it - and perhaps even benefit from all the publicity in the long run. And, much as they may wish on balance that it hadn't happened, I suspect the same will be true for Sachs and his granddaughter, too.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Apparently there's been a surge in the sale of Fawlty Towers DVDs- which has to be a good thing. I think the granddaughter is making a lot of money too- selling her story to the papers and all.

A bad thing happened. Bad things do. I'm willing to forgive Brand, because I think he's a huge talent. Less willing to forgive Ross because I think he's overhyped and overpaid.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

I'm going to agree with you again!

I do like Brand when he's riffing in a surreal and whimsical way. I don't watch his show on TV or listen to Radio 2, but he was very funny recently on the Chris Moyles show. I have never liked Jonathan Ross though. He's smug and his "humour" on his TV chat show relies overmuch on sexual innuendo. Well, it's beyond innuendo! The show is about him more than his guests and he's certainly not worth all that money as far as I'm concerned.

These big stars always seem to slip into thinking that they're untouchable and that anything they do is wonderful.

I wonder if it's because we can no longer make jokes about national sterotypes? Has "comedy" degenerated to the point where all the comedians can do is be nasty to celebrities in the name of being "edgy"?

Oh, and far from being "edgy", I think Little Britain is long past it's sell-by date. It's become embarrasing to watch them repeat the same tired old jokes week after week. Two naked jocks larking about in the locker room might have an element of humour and shock value once, but time and time again? Purleeeease... (Ditto lady and dog.)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think we may have reached a crossroads.

Gross, misanthropic humour has gone about as far as it can go. It's become mainstream- and boring.

It's time for something else. I don't know what. If I did I'd be a comedy genius- and obviously I'm not.

I enjoyed Little Britain, but we didn't need series after series of the same silly jokes. I thought the American version of the show was really lazy.

[ingenious76.livejournal.com]

You only have to read his autobiography to pin Brand down as a deeply unpleasant person - this is a self-obsessed, sex-obsessed man who has no problem with humiliating people in public. Possibly because he's gone down to the depths so therefore thinks everyone goes down with him.

As for Andrew Sachs' granddaughter - its her who I find the worst in this whole stupid debacle. If you're going to be part of a burlesque sex troop and offer yourself to a bedhopper like Brand (who isn't afraid to name everyone he's shagged) then eventually the truth will come out. Sachs didn't deserve the calls, but nor does he deserve her making herself out to be the victim. She's got more publicity for wht she does, Brand will get another commercial job, and if this means the unfunny twonk that is Ross disappears, everyone's a winner.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Most of the great comedians were pretty nasty- or, at least- pretty badly damaged. Tony Hancock, Kenneth Williams, Spike Milligan, Peter Sellers, Frankie Howerd- tormented souls every one. Brand is horrible, but he's also extremely talented.

I've been avoiding articles about Sach's grandaughter. I'd rather not know what kind of a person she is. Sachs himself appears to have acted throughout with impeccable dignity and decency.

[ingenious76.livejournal.com]

Andrew Sachs is awesome. But I agree with you about comic geniuii - virtually all of the great fictional characters are vile as well - Basil Fawlty, Rigsby, the Young Ones, Larry Saunders - the list goes on.

I suspect the reason why there aer very few decent female comedians is because that sheer, unabashed nastiness is not a trait that comes easily. That may sound sexist, but its the truth.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

There's something demonic about the great comedians. I've left living comics off my list, because, well, we're not likely to know the unvarnished truth about them until after they're gone.

But I think it's fairly obvious that John Cleese has his demons- and there's no doubt at all (given the tabloid headlines) about Steve Coogan.

I can think of two demonic female comedians- both American- Joan Rivers and Sarah Silverman.

[ingenious76.livejournal.com]

Joan Rivers - yes.

Sarah Silverman - no, I don't see it. She seems to strain to make shock-tactics, cleverly relying on inverse racism (she can make Jewish jokes because she's Jewish, if a non-Jew did they'd be flayed alive) and tries to bait the audience. Apparently her best joke is "I don't care if you think I['m racist, as long as you think I'm thin." Frankly Sarah, I don't care at all.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Silverman has made me laugh out loud. I loved her "I'm fucking Matt Damon" video. But she's very young and new. Maybe she's just a one-trick pony.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

I agree with the commenter above; I think she's milking it. I notice the photo of her in a burlesque costume invariably accompanies her "off with their heads" protestations. (Mr Strange has noticed it too, with more relish than I, so much so that I have to bring him sharply back to earth on occasion!)

That said - on what planet did Ross and Brand think that would be a good idea? With Brand I think he tends to go off on a train of thought and gets lost in the moment. Ross I am far more cynical about - something about him gives me the creepy crawlies. I like the Four Poofs and the Piano though. Keep them and drop him!

Oh and re Mock the Week - I've noticed a lot of sourness beneath the chippy chappie veneer. And I noticed a black female comedian got an awful lot of stick when she was on recently. Granted she wasn't funny but that doesn't mean they have to act like racist, self-congratulating pricks. Oh wasn't there a similar controversy re Paula Yates and Have I Got News For You?

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

"Creepy". Yes, that's the adjective for Ross. I avoid anything he's in- apart, occasionally, for his film review show, because I love the movies.

I think Brand is horrible, I also think he's brilliant. The BBC was taking a big risk when it employed him. He needs stringent editing because he seems incapable of editing himself.

I've never watched Mock The Week, so I can't comment. I watch HIGNFY (not always, but sometimes) and, yes, there are times when Ian Hislop (in particular) doesn't know when to rein it in- and crosses the line into cruelty.

[jfs.livejournal.com]

I read the Metro on the tube into work most mornings. On the business page, there's a photo of a pretty woman more days that there isn't, often with the vaguest connection to one of the stories on the page possible. Photo editors on a newspaper know that pictures of pretty women sell papers.

Given the choice of one of her publicity photos or one of her standing dressed demurely, which one do you honestly think most photo-editors are going to choose?

[ingenious76.livejournal.com]

I remember the Paula Yates controversy - although if you're going to cheat on Bob Geldof, a man regarded at the time as close to a secular saint, its wise to do it with some tact. Not Paula. She was ripped apart by Hislop and Merton, but I refuse to believe a media-literate self-publicist wouldn't have known what she was letting herself in for.

[sorenr.livejournal.com]

Well, I was recently under 30, and I don't think it was funny or appropriate. (But of course I started wearing tweed at the tender age of 22, so perhaps I was just never young and hip?) That said, the editors should really carry the major part of the responsibility; Brand and Ross are paid to be over the top and stepping a bit too far, so surely the editors have the responsibility for reigning them in and ensuring that things only go to a certain point.

Anyway, I agree. Back to the travelogue. I do find your pictures and the short captions much more interesting that the Brand/Ross-thing, and you frequently set me off on Googling/Wikipedia bouts that can last anywhere between 2 and 60 minutes.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I partly agree. The editors should have cut the Sachs material. On the other hand, surely Brand has a say in what makes the final cut? I wonder how much power the editors possess. What's their place in the pecking order? Are they in a position to face down the "talent"? I doubt it.

And editing the programme wouldn't have wiped the filth off Sachs' answerphone.

I'm glad you like the photos.