A Hurried Visit To Warwick

[poliphilo]

The wedding was in Southampton, which if you travel in a straight line from here, heading South, is as far as you can go without hiring a boat. We stopped off in Warwick- for no better reason than we'd never been there before- to eat a hurried picnic lunch and (of course) visit the church. Ailz didn't like the church because there was no provision for wheelchair users and there were people on the door intimidating you into making a donation. It's very handsome.  It was partly burned out in the 18th century and- though Christopher Wren submitted a plan- the commission to rebuild went to a man called Wilson who pulled off an eccentric but impressive design that dresses up a wild gothic idea with respectable Graeco-Roman detail. The Eastern part of the church survived the fire and is full of wonderful things- mainly tombs. Fulke Greville- the gay Elizabethan poet who was murdered by his boyfriend/manservant and whose playful spirit haunts the "Ghost Tower" at Warwick Castle- has a great, slabby thing that takes up most of the floor space in the little medieval chapter house and the remarkable Beauchamp Chapel is full of dukes and earls. 

Most notably- or famously- there's Elizabeth I's favourite, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester- who lies here with Lettice, the wife of his old age, who outlived him by 46 years. 

Comments

[aellia.livejournal.com]

I didn't know that Dudley was there.
I'm googling for images of the church. It's a church sort of day,today :-)
Intimidation spoils things.
I've been to Warwick,to go to the castle only we ran off screaming when we saw the price!
x

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I believe the castle belongs to the Tussauds people- and is full of waxworks.

[saare-snowqueen.livejournal.com]

Intimidation to see a piece of our history - YUK!
Madame Tussauds in Warwick Castle - double yuk!

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

As a tourist, when in England, I've paid gladly for the privilege of entering various cathedrals and always left a donation in the boxes of the smaller churches we visited.

Here in Philadelphia, we are members of a small congregation in a large church edifice, so I have some experience with struggling to be good stewards of a building we can't afford. If we had to pay for the staff and the infrastructure to support a gaggle of sightseers on top of that, we'd be out of business and a beautiful piece of 19th century American vernacular architecture (containing some 19th century engineering marvels) would fall to the wrecker's ball, to be replaced with condos or some such.

I know that the Church of England is the "established church," but I don't know what kind of subsidies it gets to maintain the edifices that get all that traffic.

Every so often I read a pronouncement from the Dean of Westminster Abbey that suggests that he's positively hostile to the distraction of running a tourist attraction when he actually wants to minister to the souls of his congregation.

Warwick Castle has been heavily "restored," has it not? The Richard III Society's display from the Olivier Theatre foyer (placed there to coincide with the Ian McKellen run) was at Warwick for awhile, but it eventually began to show its age, or so I'm told. We never made it to Warwick, preferring the brooding ruins of Middleham and the gentle mound that was Fotheringhay (and the beautiful tower of its semi-redundant church).

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Having worked in a beautiful showpiece Victorian church, with a tiny congregation, I know what a continual nightmare it can be to keep the show on the road.

[saare-snowqueen.livejournal.com]

I'm not opposed to leaving a donation to churches and historical buildings for their upkeep and restoration. The operative word that i object to is 'intimidated'

I am a local tourism guide here on my island and one of the loveliest of the 13th century stone churches here is in Karja. Unfortunately it is guarded by a gorgon who demands payment before allowing groups to enter. She is so unpleasant that I go out of my way to take my groups to other of the island's historic churches where we are received more graciously.
As for Warwick Castle - the word's operated by Tussauds says all there is to say.

[nostoi.livejournal.com]

I loved Warwick Castle; we've been twice and it is fabulous value for money. The waxworks are done exceptionally well and the whole thing is a lot more fun and interactive than the sterility of National Trust properties where you're barely allowed to take a breath.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

They sit at a desk in the entrance, presiding over a chest with a notice that suggests you contribute £2.00 per adult visitor. They wouldn't throw you out if you refused, but you'd feel heavily disapproved of.

It's always wealthy churches in wealthy towns that do this- churches that must already enjoy an above average income.

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

I spent some time chatting with the dear ladies that volunteer at Tewkesbury Abbey. It's a continual struggle for them to keep up that magnificent building.

Those desks are personed by volunteers in many cases. I suspect they'd not disapprove of someone pushing a wheelchair missing the donation box. They'd assume you have your hands full, both literally and metaphorically.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe public money should be made available. I don't mind paying upfront to visit castles and ruins and suchlike, but I reckon churches are/should be different.

[wyrmwwd.livejournal.com]

Dudley! What a treat! I didn't know about the Gay ghost, either. Thanks for sharing!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The gay ghost featured in a recent episode of Most Haunted.

Greville's boyfriend stabbed him after discovering he was only being left £20 in Greville's will. He then committed suicide. Greville was 74 at the time, so I reckon he'd had a good innings.

[jackiejj.livejournal.com]

...and there were people on the door intimidating you into making a donation.

Just like the Olden Days in the temple with Jesus knocking over the tables!

Wonderful faces on the king and queen.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I know the upkeep on these places is astronomical, but do think it should be possible to walk into a church without being asked for money.

[nostoi.livejournal.com]

I was reminded of the money lenders when we went to Winchester! And I agree about not being asked for money.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

I have to say that I know how badly churches need visitors' donations to helpo them care for all the history they contain. The official church fathers (whichever denomination) they may be, just do not provide any longer and ancient buildings and tombs crumble. That said, donation boxes, and not scowling wards of the doors, are the way to go. Though I suppose visitors mostly ignore the donation urns.

I didn't know Dudley was at Warwick but then, I've never visited the church. He has a tomb worthy of a Queen's favourite.
:)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I wasn't expecting to run into Dudley either. I love to travel blind- to walk into a building I know nothing about and have it surprise me.

[nostoi.livejournal.com]

We stopped off at Winchester once and the second we were inside the door we were accosted by someone after a donation. It was a Sunday and the shop selling tat was doing a roaring trade...

As far as I can remember they also had a kiosk type thing inside the church where you could queue and "donate". I see from their website they now charge fixed prices. £5 for an adult.

It was an awful place and we didn't stay long.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Ailz is sensitive to places. Normally she loves cathedrals, but she hated Winchester. I was taken aback by just how strong her reaction was.

This was twenty odd years ago- and as far as I remember they weren't charging an entrance fee, so it had nothing to do with that. There was just something in the atmosphere she found rebarbative.