The Russians Are Coming

[poliphilo]

I grew up during the Cold War. I remember playing a game called "Russian spies" which involved talking in a silly voice and brandishing crayoned drawings of space rockets. My friend and I never could figure out what Russian spies actually did. It was fun drawing the space rockets but the rest of it palled very quickly.

So I've got this conditioning. Russia is the "Evil Empire"- all that Reaganite crap. 

But

When I was a little older I discovered the Russians had written the best books in the world. Later I found out they'd also made some of the best films.

AND they defeated Hitler.  Yes they did. We helped out at bit, but they were the ones who fought the biggest battles and took the biggest losses. 

So LJ is now owned by the Russians. 

Yes I know the President of Russia is a scary bloke. (So is  the President of the USA if you hadn't noticed.)

But he's less likely to want to kill us- right- now we're his customers.  

We live in a global economy. And in a global economy this is what happens. Russians also own Chelsea football club and much of London.
 
The shop's new owner has a funny accent. Get over it. 

A capitalist is a capitalist is a capitalist. Are you trying to tell me  Russian capitalists are intrinsically more evil than American capitalists? (Or British capitalists, or Australian capitalists). That's silly. Go read some history. 

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

No problem with Russians per se except for some aspects of their government (right, Mrs Litvinenko?) but what has spooked the LJers is the post in the new lj_2008 community:

The LiveJournal Advisory Board will publish and update on a regular basis a clear a set of aims and values. This will address such vital community issues as privacy, security, taste and decency. It will also provide a forum to consider any relevant legal, political or religious concerns.

932 replies so far mostly concerned about being vetted for taste, decency, politics and religion.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

But people were asking for a clear set of guidelines...

I've got a lot invested in LJ- which is why I'm determinedly whistling in the dark. I don't want to be forced out but if I thought I was being vetted- and there were things I couldn't say here- then I'd go.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you on that, waiting and seeing. I'm not a blog expert so, where else on the blogosphere would we go?

I started an alternate journal way back when...

[jubal51394.livejournal.com]

Six Apart took ownership here, assuming that things would be changing and wanting to be guaranteed some space there.

My other journal is here:
http://www.greatestjournal.com/

I was unable to get many of my LJ friends to join me there so I've been doing both for a while now.

If someone would point out a way to transfer all my stuff in bulk over there I'd be gone already. It works about the same and offers more stuff for free. I have no complaints with their service at all. It's just lonely over there without the rest of you guys. ;)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

LJ is my home on the Net. This is where my friends are. If I were forced do leave I would probably just give up blogging altogether.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

I have just set up a Facebook account, but that's purely to keep up to date with the offspring because they seem to use it.

I suspect that if LJ changed sufficiently that it was no longer a place I wanted to hang out, I might split my activity, ie try doing a real blog (with actual content!) at Blogspot and keep the socialising to Facebook and Usenet.

Of course I also spend time now on Flickr...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I have trouble enough keeping abreast of one blogging site. Two would sink me.

My kids are all here on LJ- and one of them even posts fairly regularly- I have no incentive to move elswhere.

[dadi.livejournal.com]

I just hope this wave of bigotry (which I really don't think has anything to do with the Russians) doesn't get worse. Over the last days I have seen a few of my LJ friends' journals disappear, others flagged and cut.. and NONE of them had anything scandalous or even more adult than writing about a lesbian crush (without any whatsoever erotic detail) in it. This stinks more of Bible Bashers to me than of Red Menace.

As of the conditioning.. my father has been arrested a few times by the German Home Security Police, our house has been searched more often than I can say.. only because my parents were Eastern European immigrants and my father kept in continuous contact with his family "beyond the curtain". So I certainly got my part of horror stories growing up, but still, to keep me busy and learn some survival skills, my parents put me for a few years in the youth organization of the German Socialist Party, which was "the communist answer to the Scouts" so to say. And I sure got my part of left wing indoctrination there, and later on I even learned how to make Molotov Cocktails, LOL. So, roll the Red Menace on, I am really good at singing the Internationale (and can give an encore with Bandiera Rossa and some Italian partisan songs.. ;)

[karenkay.livejournal.com]

You're saying that people's journals were cut and/or disappeared without their consent? There's a lot of self-censoring going on, I know.

[dadi.livejournal.com]

techno_goddesss was simply cancelled from one moment to the next, her IP blocked and she never got any whatsoever information or warning or whatever about WHY. We have been friends for years, and her journal is certainly a lot tamer than mine.. I really have no idea, nor has she, what can be behind this. Others have most of their entries behind cuts, without any idea why (I am talking about people writing about their birthday presents, others about singing auditions, others about job search). Totally weird.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I'm not seeing any of this in my corner of LJ. I'm not even seeing any flags (whatever they are). I'm bewildered. What exactly is going on?

[jenny_evergreen]

I don't know about your one friend, but I DO know the thing about the cuts; anyone seeing that sort of thing needs to go into their settings page and go down to the Adult section and set their choices to "do not filter" and rate their own journals as they think appropriate, etc.
The automatic settings are not ideal.

[karenkay.livejournal.com]

This is completely and absolutely disturbing.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Molotov cocktails- cool. All I ever learned from my (brief) sojourn in the Scouts was how to tie knots and shin up ropes.

The adult content thing does bother me. I haven't fully come to terms yet with what's going on.

[qatsi.livejournal.com]

Didn't it used to be said that the optimists were learning Russian, and the pessimists Mandarin?

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The Russian bear is huge and wild
It has devoured the infant child.
The infant child is not aware
It has been eaten by the bear.

[momof2girls.livejournal.com]

So what's the big deal with the Russians, anyway? As long as the format's the same and they keep Frank the Goat, it doesn't make any difference to me.

My kids' piano teacher is Russian. She's taught them a few Russian words, and it's a hoot to hear them trying to say the words!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

We'll see how it goes...

I don't suppose there'll be any dramatic changes. All this flagging business that people are getting so upset about is the work of the ancien regime, is it not?

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

I'm not quite sure what the kerfuffle is about. As you say, capitalism is global these days. What does it matter who owns LJ? To be honest, I think any censoring due to sexual content is far more likely to be American than Russian. My corner of LJ has been entirely unaltered so far, apart from the little flag button that now allows one to notify The Powers That Be about unsuitable content.

To be honest, I've always had a sneaking liking for the Russians, even when they were supposed to be our arch-enemies. My Dad always stressed their part in WWII and Manchester was twinned with St Petersburg back in the days when it was still called Leningrad and there were organised school exchange visits. It is one of my regrets that I never got to go to Russia in the 60s because I was doing my A-levels the year our school got to send pupils. :(

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I've always been contrarian. The more I was told to hate the Russians the more I schooled myself to try and see things from their point of view.

memory of the russian dead

[seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com]

I am not worried about having Russain ownership
of livejournal in the least. Bur really Tony do
you seriously believe that political life is as
free and open in Russia as it is in the United
States? I wonder if you are aware of the millions
dead during the Communist regieme and of the
camps...I mean I suppose you are aware but you
allow yourself to summarize that whole period as
'they defeated Hitler'... and that this horror
was 'Reaganite crap' if I follow what you are
saying.
I wonder if that is all the memory that will remain
of what the Russian people have endured is some
comparison to political leaders whom one didnt
vote for?
they deserve better than that possibly.

this is irate in tone and risks to be an expression
of it being early in the morning but I imagine that
yours is the sort of exercise in hyperbole which
come to think of it is parallel, mutatis mutandis,
to the tabloid papers I buy for their outrageous
headlines and sports sections (yes we have them too
as I know you do) in preference to the boring
papers. In this case mine is an over reaction indeed
but... but here it is with respect yours
+Seraphim Sigrist

on the livejournal aspect

[seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com]

but to what is the starting point and your
and my concern, our investment in livejournal.
I am not concerned really. what would one
be afraid of? mismanagement and movement to
yet another owner? could happen but is off
topic here...
I think one question about this is what sort
of russian investment this is and whether it is
not of the sort of the buying of the football
team in chlsea--that is a prudent movement of
some part of holdings overseas by one of the
oligarchs (and you speak of capitalists but
remember that the money was all elements of
the monies of the communist time establishment
it is not produced from zero as it were).
however one concern, not for you and I, might
be this that livejournal as the reports say
is pretty much the Eussain blogosphere and
there is no doubt that control and intimidation
of the blogosphere could be part of the objective
of a centralized power which has silenced all
opposition media. their law does allow much
broader intercept of email and phone than does
ours. I cannot say if this move has any
ramifications ,at least psychologically, for
Russians but again I would think it depends on
what sort of group is providing the seed money
referred to etc.
But beyond mismanaging I do not see how they could
harm you or I. A determined intelligence service
would certainly already be able to read our
livejournals since for one thing yours and mine
are public etc as to playing some kind of dirty
tricks if we were of interest to this or that
intelligence service of another country well I
would think they might think of worse things
than painting a moustache on some mona lisa
we drew...
in short people who worry about this on livejournal
are ,as far as I can imagine, concerned without
reason. which is to agree with you, which you
deserve after my rather short tempered previous response
and now I must away in shakespearian dictum ,and
bungee jump into real space time yrs
+S

Re: on the livejournal aspect

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this. I think we should wait and see. 6Apart has annoyed a lot of LJers. Things might well get better under the new owners.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

amen

[seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com]

amen

Re: memory of the russian dead

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I take your point. I know what happened in Russia during the Soviet era. I've read the Gulag Archipelago. Stalin was a monster. It's been said so often it hardly needs repeating.

My aim was not to deny or make light of the sufferings of the Russian people under Communism but to say one or two things to try and deflate the hysteria I felt was building up over the purchase of LJ by those ghastly commissars....

seraphim as twit

[seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com]

I always feel a bit of a twit when
I send 'letter to the Times' like that
on lj and no doubt with some reason... :)

Now on lj one question I would have which
does not concern you and I is this
given a local administration of lj
in another country. suppose a journal
is deleted which is critical of that
country's administration... who here
would know or care? and who could do
anything about it?
but it is not directly a concern for us
and I hope not for anyone in this case.

Re: seraphim as twit

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Hey, you have strong feelings on the subject- and your involvement in the issues is much more intimate than mine.

You raise a good question. If a Russian LJer is censored or deleted for political reasons what responsibility do we westerners have towards that person?

How are things in the Russian blogosphere? Are they free to be rude about their government or do they have to tread carefully? I've no idea how things stand; do you?

seraphim and poliphilo in dialogue

[zoe-1418.livejournal.com]

I appreciate these exchanges you've had here, and I just want to say I admire both of you guys very very much!!

in expression of J Stewart

[seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com]

Aww shucks ma'am!
well you know you have both a
Republican and a Labor Party admirer
in turn, speaking for Tony who respect
each other too so lets have
a virtual I dont know, sun not over
yardarm yet, hot chocolate on it
prosit!

Re: in expression of J Stewart

[zoe-1418.livejournal.com]

I raise my virtual hot cocoa to each of you.

The "Night Cafe" icon is so appropriate here.

Hmmmm. Now I'm wanting some *real* hot cocoa.

Re: in expression of J Stewart

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I don't do cocoa.

But there's a bottle of wine open in the kitchen....

Now there's an idea.

Sante!

wine

[zoe-1418.livejournal.com]

OK. It's now past noon even in the central U.S., so wine will do!

I usually don't do cocoa either, but I might be tired of coffee today... yet I am hankering for a hot drink. I guess it could be tea.

Re: seraphim and poliphilo in dialogue

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Well thank you.

Just because we disagree about things it doesn't mean we can't have respect for one another.

Courtesy. That's the name of the game.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

Well, LJ is still actually owned by an American although his company is based in moscow and is run under Russian law.. The owner of SUP is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Paulson

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Oh right.

That's interesting.

Them Russians...

[msjann65.livejournal.com]

Over time we Americans became more like the Russians while they became more like us!
Back in the fifties we thought it deplorable that little Russian children as young as three years were farmed out to day nurseries so that their mothers could work. Today in my country they are popped into child care around six weeks of age. They are in "school" almost from birth until age 21 when they graduate from college. Since the philosophy of public education is aimed at building "citizens", then the kids today are being indoctrinated, not educated.
We thought it deplorable back then that Russian people were not free to speak as they felt. Meanwhile, here today we have PC, which dictates the words I may use or not use (Swear words are OK, but "mankind" is not).
Back in the sixties and seventies we became more socialistic in our US economy, and beginning in the eighties the Russians became more capitalistic. Interesting!
All I can do is hope that we do not switch roles completely because I really dont want to see us become they way they used to be. I also dont want them to become completely like us.
There were, by the way, some good things going on in Russia in those days, for example, any student with the ability to do the work could go to college at the expense of the State, and the gifted and talented could study ballet or music gratis. The poor of America could use some of that free higher education!
I'm with you. I love Russian novels. And the music of Russian composers. And the Russian ballet companies on tour in the US make our local ones pale by comparison.
I remember in the fifties when refugees came to the US - some of them attended school with me. They knew so much more about science and math and foreign language than I did, and their grades put us all to shame. It made me think that not everything was evil in the "evil empire".

Re: Them Russians...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The USA has a complex 18th century political system that was designed to keep too much power from being concentrated in the hands of any one person or clique. It's a great system but it's being put under a lot of pressure right now from You Know Who.

The Russians, on the other hand, are new to democracy. They only emerged from feudalism in the mid 19th century and spent much of the 20th century in the grip of one of the nastiest and most inefficient tyrannies the world has ever known. It seems there's very little to keep them reverting to autocracy.

I watch the progress of both great nations with my heart in my mouth.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

The problem is not Russophobia. The problem is that in Russia, LJ is one of the few media outlets that is not controlled or influenced by Putin's people. Since Putin has a rep for taking over that which he disapproves of, how long is it before Putin or a front company controlled by Putin buys out SUP, thus putting LJ under the same restrictions that Russian media have?

Secondly: does SUP allow data mining, and if so, do I want information about me going to a company that could possibly end up getting owned by a guy who used to be top dog in the KGB and still has a great deal of influence over the KGB's successor organization, the FSP? Bad enough that the US government has access to my private info.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is a worry.

I'm already wondering whether Russian politics is now an off-limits topic of conversation.

Not that I've ever wanted to discuss Russian politics before today.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

It's something I keep an eye on. I like Russian people in general and as you have said, their literature and art is second to none. But I trust this Putin fellow just about as much as I trust Dick Cheney.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I don't trust any politician. They all try to concentrate power in their own hands. Apart from anything else, being a dictator is so much easier than being democratically accountable

[happydog.livejournal.com]

"No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in!"

[elegysostenuto.livejournal.com]

I thought the post here, and the comments following were incredibly interesting, with the multitude of viewpoints and such...and I felt slightly ashamed that my only response upon reading the announcement was, "Oh, a Russian company. Interesting." And promptly forgot about it.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think your response was entirely sensible. I suspect (I hope) we won't see any fundamental change.