Matters Arising

[poliphilo]

No, I couldn't go back to being a witch. It's not that I don't believe any longer. It's just that I've heard the latch click shut behind me.

If I went back I'd just be repeating myself. And I hate repeating myself. One of my problems with the Church was we had to speak the same texts over and over again. At least with Wicca I could write a new ritual every time or- even better- improvise.

I threw Christianity away. I've since had to go and retrieve it from the bushes, brush it down, leaf through the pages, draw a moral or two.

I never rejected Wicca as violently. It's more like I pushed it aside- out of my direct line of vision. But the process of reclamation is the same. 

You can't just discard things in your past. Well, I suppose you can, but you'll always feel the absence- like a phantom limb or something.

I have problems with the word belief. Why is it considered virtuous to believe- to have faith? Our society is gentle with people of faith- even when the things they believe are manifestly wrong or wicked. When you believe in something you can't prove and others- maybe- can disprove, where's the virtue in that? It just means you're a fool, an unreflective fool, a sap.

Our society pretends to value independent thought. it doesn't really. People who think things through are a nuisance. They wobble the applecart our rulers sit astride. 

That's why faith is valued. it serves the ends of the rulers of the world. The faithful are easier to govern.

You can't keep politics out of it.

So, "belief". I don't believe in anything. Or rather, I don't use that word if I can possibly help it. What I do is live my truth. This truth is certainly questionable. At lot of what I regard as truth is unacceptable to the current orthodoxy. 

But I don't think my truth contains anything that has been definitively disproved. If it does then more fool me.

And my truth is? Related to Plato's image of the prisoners in the cave. We live an illusion. "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players....." OK, I've got Plato and Shakespeare on my side, but I don't feel the need to argue a case. It's not a belief but a feeling. I feel it in here. Arguments aren't going to touch it. 

And following this feeling- this truth-  has taken me through Christianity and Wicca and other changes of scenery to wherever I am now. 

Whatever I am now. 

I had to fill in a questionnaire the other day and when it came to religion I scratched my head for a while, rejected "agnostic" and put "pagan". Doesn't mean I still dance round bonfires. (Not that I object to bonfires- far from it).  Means I entertain superstitions and household gods and a profound scepticism about official dogma after the high Roman fashion. Means my mind is wide open to whatever promptings it may receive from whatever worlds are out there.

Comments

[aellia.livejournal.com]

Interesting,Tony
I don't quite know where I am at the moment. There are things about the Sun gods that spark my memory

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

I have discovered that I have outgrown all religion, and like you, can never return to it. It would be like putting on my kid clothes again- a fruitless effort.

Spiritually, I am still Pagan, but practice and 'belief' wise, I am agnostic and unafraid to admit it.

[solar-diablo.livejournal.com]

You can't just discard things in your past. Well, I suppose you can, but you'll always feel the absence- like a phantom limb or something.

Good way of putting it. It aptly describes the Christianity of my childhood. There are things I want to hold on to, things I want to continue to believe, and I find I cannot. It's as though I'm trying to hold on to a teddy bear I loved intensely as a boy, and feeling awkward as hell about it all the while.

Now I'm thinking of that one piece of Scripture - "Now that I am a man, I put away childish things" - in a whole new light.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

Since I stopped being a Roman Catholic nothing in the way of a structured religion speaks to me. I suppose I have garnered a few ideas from Christianity that are still with me as it really *is* hard to discard one´s past but nothing that would constitute a faith or an organized set of beliefs.

That's why faith is valued. it serves the ends of the rulers of the world. The faithful are easier to govern.

You can't keep politics out of it.

One only has to look at the US to see that very clearly.
:/

[sculptruth.livejournal.com]

Oof, what a hard question that would be for me to answer. I wouldn't know how to summarise. I've noticed lately I have labeled myself "mystic"-- wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism) has an interesting description of what that might mean, which still leave me wondering where I stand. It's not like my brand of mysticism has a label that relates it to a specific religion, but the description of a mystic is what most closely fits for now.

Spirituality is such a personal journey; it's hard to describe to others.

Religion itself is absolutely a political structure.

[veronica-milvus.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing that story. And from the comments you got, maybe we have to start a "Recovering Believers" community!

We are on the same page. I'm posting a lot in godandmagic and trying to get the debate going.

[glassgirl7.livejournal.com]

I had a client once who put on the "religion" line in a health history "Peace, Love, and Beauty". I liked that quite a bit; I knew what she was saying, and I thought it was a great solution to a semi-offensive question.

[jackiejj.livejournal.com]

Thank you again, Tony. I'm saving this one so I can think about it.

This morning, out walking, I remembered the first house my husband and I lived in, the one with the sulphur in the closets, and wondered if I could ever (say it came up for rent) live in it again, or if I would be haunted by myself? :)

I thought then: for someone who's given up all her beliefs, how stupid that she still believes in ghosts.

What I've given up, actually, is their beliefs, whatever they are--well, the Nicene Creed and all that.

[kaysho.livejournal.com]

One of the problems I would face if I wanted to re-adopt an organised religion is that they're package deals. I may admire the basic tenets of your faith, but I want to participate and not just admire from afar, I also have to accept unthinkingly a lot of other things that my thinking mind considers undemonstrated rubbish (such as "our holy book is the law and all the other books that call themselves holy books are not" ... how is this so other than "Because we say so"? If I pull out a piece of paper and write on it, "This is the Word of God", how do you know it isn't except that you're just cocksure of yourself?).

Ironically, this is how religion classes in Catholic school made me an ex-Catholic.