Muslim Surnames
Jun. 29th, 2007 10:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
poliphiloOur neighbour from two doors down- the one who gave us the planter- is known to us as Mrs Bibi. There are lots of Mrs Bibis in this part of the world.
Bibi is an honorific not a surname. Benazir Bibi means something like Miss Benazir.
So for a person to be called Mrs Bibi is a nonsense. Somewhere back down the line an uncomprehending official made a silly mistake.
Why does our neighbour stand for it? I've been researching Muslim surnames all morning and getting more and more confused. There seem to be no fixed conventions. If I understand my sources correctly, the purest tradition- the one that goes back to the prophet- is for everyone- male and female- to have a personal name followed by the name of his or her father. It's a system of labelling that guards against inadvertent incest- and very sensible too. Ahmed's son is called Muktar Ahmed and Muktar's son is called Hanif Muktar and so on. But in reality things are far more complicated- and practice varies from place to place and clan to clan. One thing that emerges fairly clearly is that the surname as westerners understand it- a badge of identity, honour and pride that passes down the family from generation to generation- just doesn't exist in Islamic cultures.
And I suppose that's why my neighbour isn't bothered. You want two names to put on your form? Here they are- Benazir Bibi. And if you choose to interpret the second as a surname who cares?
Bibi is an honorific not a surname. Benazir Bibi means something like Miss Benazir.
So for a person to be called Mrs Bibi is a nonsense. Somewhere back down the line an uncomprehending official made a silly mistake.
Why does our neighbour stand for it? I've been researching Muslim surnames all morning and getting more and more confused. There seem to be no fixed conventions. If I understand my sources correctly, the purest tradition- the one that goes back to the prophet- is for everyone- male and female- to have a personal name followed by the name of his or her father. It's a system of labelling that guards against inadvertent incest- and very sensible too. Ahmed's son is called Muktar Ahmed and Muktar's son is called Hanif Muktar and so on. But in reality things are far more complicated- and practice varies from place to place and clan to clan. One thing that emerges fairly clearly is that the surname as westerners understand it- a badge of identity, honour and pride that passes down the family from generation to generation- just doesn't exist in Islamic cultures.
And I suppose that's why my neighbour isn't bothered. You want two names to put on your form? Here they are- Benazir Bibi. And if you choose to interpret the second as a surname who cares?
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no subject
Date: 2007-06-29 05:20 pm (UTC)Back to Ozu. His Japan reminds me forcibly of the England of the 50s and 60s- another traditional culture in the process of coming to terms with an American "invasion". So I read my own experience into the movies and, yes, I'm probably missing and misinterpreting all sorts of things. Does this matter? It seems to me that Ozu belongs to the world- just as Shakespeare does- and is open to all sorts of readings- including "foreign" ones.
If I seem confident it may be because I make a point of going through my posts and crossing out the "maybes" and "perhapses". I think this makes them livelier and more likely to provoke debate.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-30 02:27 am (UTC)I don't know. When I was teaching, I would have say yes, because I want my students to be able to get into his head.
But I'm not your teacher (obviously), and your interpretation is so coherent, that perhaps Ozu does belong to the world.
Yes, you're right about crossing out the maybes and perhpases.:) I have to do this in e-mail all the time.