Pubic Hair

[poliphilo]

I understand that no-one under thirty likes pubic hair.

See here

I grew up in the 60s when pubic hair was the holy grail. Why do you think anyone ever watched anything by Jean-Luc Godard?

No, that's unfair; Godard in his pomp rocked my soul. Weekend was a life-changing experience. But it didn't hurt that he had chicks walking around in the background with their panties off.

And back then chicks with their panties off meant huge, cushiony swatches of pubic hair.

The temple was veiled....

O.K., OK... Now I'm embarrassing myself.

Apparently the fashion for bare pubes is down to porn. Porn stars wax. And we all aspire to be porn stars (Ach, we are such sheep) just as we all once aspired to be the Venus de Milo or the Apollo Belvedere.

Though that was a little before my time.

The first artist to paint pubic hair was- I rather think- Gustave Courbet. Thereafter the bush had a golden age that lasted approximately a hundred years.

I think the human body benefits from that patch of shading. To me it looks unfinished without it.

The pornstar look is an android look- No hair out of place, boneless bits that don't wobble. Immaculate.

I reject it. I like flesh that behaves like flesh. Follicles that work.

The call of the wild.

Comments

[craftyailz.livejournal.com]

Don't they look like they belong on a child. The draw to look younger - anti wrinkle etc., - includes the prepubescent female body - skinny, flat chested and no pubic or other body hair. It seems a bit creepy to me. Thankfully we don't worship the flaccid penis (yet)!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Our society hates adult women, I think. We want to turn 'em into machines or children.

And what exactly is wrong with a flaccid penis?

[craftyailz.livejournal.com]

It's not how I like 'em - as well you know

Sure we do!

[jubal51394.livejournal.com]

"we don't worship the flaccid penis (yet)!"

Ever seen any great art erect?

(our children are going to be so embarrassed by this thread. *smirk*)

Re: Sure we do!

[craftyailz.livejournal.com]

No, but I keep on hoping. Perhaps that's why fellas always look a little wimpy (I was going to say limp...) in Art

Back in the day...

[jubal51394.livejournal.com]

I used to bikini wax... one must be a bit masochistic.

What does that do to your theory?

Re: Back in the day...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think America never really fell in love with pubic hair.
Hollywood stars were never hirsute.

But Europe (and New York- which is a piece of Europe that floated off and got wrongly attached) things were different. In the sixties hair was holy.

[armoire-man.livejournal.com]

Abso-freakin'-lootely.

Sigh. I miss women, as opposed to girls, girls, girls.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I guess we're showing our age.....

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

I read a bit of that article and about 2/3 down I found, couched in swinging 00's language, something that sounded like "if she puts out on the first date she's not a nice girl and you don't want to have a relationship with her."

The more things change....

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Isn't it weird. What a long journey we took to get back to where we started.

At the risk of sounding like a boring old fart, I feel sorry for young people today...

[kinderheldin.livejournal.com]

I feel sorry for them, too. I read the whole article -- and it articulated something I wasn't able to say, quite -- but have understood to be true:

"In the words of one American writer, the western world has been "pornified" in the past decade. The worldwide web exposes more or less anyone who goes online to images few of us would have had a clue where to buy a decade ago, showing sexual acts we might never have heard of. It has made porn stars out of ordinary people, global celebrities out of porn stars. It has brought pornography into the workplace, children's bedrooms, the collective consciousness.

Above all, though, the internet has readjusted the boundaries of pornography, normalising it into the wider culture.
…
Levy argues that they [females] have internalised the aesthetic of pornography, interpreting it as the new female sexual norm."

I see how showing cleavage is a fashion statement these days, even in teenage-dom (or especially there) and the professional world. Girls basically seem to think they're being fashionable when in fact, they're trapping themselves in the pornographic aesthetic/gaze.

I don't think women are becoming sexually liberated, rather I see them as defining themselves through this gaze: a veritable cage surrounded by mirrors. They're more concerned with being "sexy" than "pretty" (not that either should be the ultimate expression of feminity), and their idea of sexy, comes from "normalized" pornography. Even using the word "porn" like it's a kind of ice cream, makes it more accepted in everyday conversations.

Personally, I think pornography is really bad for both men and women -- having a dissociative effect either way. It's dehumanizing. As a feminist, though, I feel it's difficult to address the subject with young women because the whole culture tells them that to gain approval/belonging, "look and act like this." The (anti-)"aesthetic" of pornography really is insidious. (Susan Griffin wrote a book called Pornography and Silence" that addresses this idea of the pornography in the collective unconscious.)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It seems as though porn has become more and more unnatural.

You look at 70s porn, 80s porn- and the people are still human; they have hair and blemishes and jiggly bits. But somewhere along the line the humanity dropped away; pubes got shaved, breasts got stiffened with silicone.

Someone I was reading the other day said the contemporary porn-star is aiming to look like Barbie.

Porn isn't about men and women at all. It negates the human; it negates the body. It's the expression of a warped, self-hating Puritanism

[kinderheldin.livejournal.com]

Actually, I googled Susan Griffin's book here mentioned, to see if it had a "search inside this" tag on it. I couldn't find the book on Amazon. Anyway, I found this prof's blog, where she's talking about the same phenomenon:
http://www.vickiforman.com/?p=306

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd realised till now just what a big issue this is.

These things kinda creep up on you.

One moment you're living in Pleasantville; the next you're living in Pleasureville.

We've turned sexual liberation into a new form of sexual oppression.

[arielstarshadow.livejournal.com]

I shave for a couple of reasons:

1. I like the way it feels when it's smooth down there
2. Men seem to prefer it because there's no getting hair in the mouth when they go down on you.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I've no quarrel with reason #1: that's entirely your choise.

As for reason #2: I've never minded getting hair in my mouth.

Grrrrrr!

[fidget]

It's tough being an American girl in her early twenties. You're expected to be a sexual being, but to still maintain a good-girl, innocent image beneath the Playboy shirts and mini-skirts. I guess that's why the pre-teen boy look is so desirable -- no breasts, no hips, no body hair, and weighing ninety pounds.

It's scary to think that just about every young male out there is a pedophile, but that would explain everything nicely. It's sick, but when I tell myself that, I don't feel so guilty for having womanly curves.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Our society seems to be scared of real women- women with curves, women with hair.

Porn was "supposed" to be about sexual liberation, but it's turned out to be just another tool of oppression.

The patriarchy always wins.

I don't like this situation one little bit.

[fidget]

Artistic nudity is one thing. I shy away from porn, however. I've never been comfortable with it, and I'm a minority among my peers. It's so hard to meet a guy my age who doesn't bring up porn on a first date.

However, when I bring up the fact that Chris secretly looks at porn then claims to be so disgusted by it (and he pays for it), porn-lover or not, I get asked why he does this. I don't have an answer, other than that I hate being lied to. He also claims to hate the "pre-teen boy" look that so many girls sport, but that's what he likes to look at.

I've been with guys who were embarrassed to be seen with me in public because I was "fat". As in, not being anorexic and having curves. I've been told that I'm sexy, but not cute like the other girls are. I'm okay to ogle in private, as long as nobody else knows about it.

I think, deep down, males my age really do prefer a more curvy woman -- it's hard-wired into instinct -- but they've been trained to believe that the opposite is the only thing that is acceptable. This, of course, is the cause for eating disorders to become such a rampant trend, when thirty or so years ago, it was practically unheard of. I wonder what long-term effect this will have on society, ranging from women who have damaged their bodies so much that they can't have children to what other heights of unrealistic beauty may occur in the future.

I hope this makes sense.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

They bring up porn on a first date- Jeez, but things have changed since my day.

I guess it's possible (in fact I know it's possible) to be attracted AND disgusted by the same thing. Especially if you've been brought up in a Puritan society like the USA.

I think you're right. Men are programmed at a very deep level to like full-bodied women. The current fashion for anorexic waifs runs counter to instinct and biology.

Sometimes (indeed most of the time) I think the human race is quite mad.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think it does.

And also of infantilism.

We don't want to face up to the realities of adult sexuality.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm using adult to mean "responsible" or "clued up" or something like that.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Actually, you've got me thinking.

I know I had intense sexual fantasies and yearnings as a child- but they were completely uninformed. I hadn't a clue what was really going on.

When I was 4 or 5 I had this huge crush on a little girl (Her name was Carol) and not knowing how else to handle it, I went and told her I was going to EAT her.

She thought I was horrid.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It was something more than just sensual. There were emotions involved. I was really crazy for Carol- the way she looked, the way she smelt. I wanted her all to myself.

And it was important that she was a girl.

I think sexual is the right word. I see a continuity between myself at four and my adult sexual self. The only real difference is that I now I have some idea of what's going on.

[sovay]

I think the human body benefits from that patch of shading. To me it looks unfinished without it.

I think it's like anything else: if you shave or do not shave for your own sake, that's one thing; if it's because of other people's expectations or preferences, that's very much another. And then they can get tangled up in one another, so that you might think you're bikini-waxing because it makes you feel more beautiful, when your criteria of beauty have been imposed from outside. It's not a preference that makes sense to me. (If for no other reason than: ouch.) But I didn't grow up worrying about my sexual attractiveness versus pornstars . . .

And back then chicks with their panties off meant huge, cushiony swatches of pubic hair.

Your language reminded me of time_shark's "The Golden Helmet (Casque d'Or)," about Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec:

He has become Montemartre’s carnal spirit,
joyfully deformed,
generously corrupt,
gleefully debauched,
celebrating the body in all its pouched, plump, pocked
imperfections,
its ringmaster and its historian,
recording the human whirlwind:
gaudy hats and billowing blouses,
the green haze of absinthe,
sagging rumps and shocks of red pubic hair,
monsieurs emerging from beneath sheets
to kiss their rented lovers,
the stark black of slumming aristocrats,
slipping away from the life he left behind for good . . .

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It's very hard to separate oneself from the aesthetic of the age. And the aesthetic of the current age says that Barbie is the perfect woman.

I love Toulouse Lautrec. He was real. And he loved the real.

"sagging rumps and shocks of red pubic hair" Yes!

[sovay]

And the aesthetic of the current age says that Barbie is the perfect woman.

Eccch.

"sagging rumps and shocks of red pubic hair" Yes!

That was the line. : )

It's in time_shark's amazing collection Disturbing Muses: it's a cycle of poems that essentially retell painters' lives from their art, not their histories. Good stuff.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Mmm, yes.

I think I may need to friend him.

[sovay]

I think I may need to friend him.

You should. He's an excellent editor and poet, and all-round interesting person. And he performs his own poems with props.

[paroxysma.livejournal.com]

Yeah...I don't really care to scare the shit out of my lover and have him think that I am pre-pubescent. I do not aspire to be a porn star. I don't even like porn. Smut books are fine, but porn gets me all embarrassed.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yeah- let's love one another the way we are.

Porn is unreal and getting more and more so. For me human flesh is sexy and silicone ain't.

[ex-roomette173.livejournal.com]

I remember when waxing was very new, and you had to go to the places in the Valley (Los Angeles area) where the porn stars went to get it done. Then it started coming up all over the place. I think it hurt the most when I'd talk to men my own age and they equated not waxing with uncleanliness and lack of grooming. Then again, the men also waxed-chest and back, gentils unaware that they were copying an aesthetic from gay pornography.

I would just like some range to beauty - that's all I ask. Right now we're hardening into a caste system based around bodies. I don't know if that has always been the case or I am just more aware of it but if I have to hear one more fellow-new-mom lament the changes in her body as if something catastrophic and awful has happened, I will get a little wooden box and carry it around just so I have something to stand on when I yell. :)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I hate this standardization of beauty.

Apart from anything else the ideal on offer is so boring.

The porn star look doesn't do a thing for me. It's so bland.

I don't want to make love to a blow up plastic doll. I want to make love to a person.

[sina-says.livejournal.com]

...I will get a little wooden box and carry it around just so I have something to stand on when I yell.

lovely.

mind if i add you?

[ex-roomette173.livejournal.com]

thank you! I shall add you back. :)

[amritarosa.livejournal.com]

I like my hair because it reminds me that I'm a beastie.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

That's exactly it.

And isn't letting go and being a beastie part of the fun of sex?

[zephyrcrow.livejournal.com]

I like this comment!

[solar-diablo.livejournal.com]

What's interesting is how it's becoming less of a gender issue, and more of a human one. There are increasing numbers of men who shave their legs and bodyhair as well. I started shaving when I trained for triathlons and swimming, and the habit stuck. It just feels cleaner and looks better, IMO. Ever see someone wear a Speedo without without trimming? Looks like they're trying to smuggle a muskrat into the pool. When it comes to pubic hair (male or female), I prefer trimmed to unchecked growth. Count me a victim of media propaganda, I suppose. But completely shaved? Nah.

It's interesting to posit the connections between the hairless aesthetic and the growth of technology. As our technology advances, we seem to prefer looking less and less human.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think you're right about us wanting to look more and more like machines.

I've never shaved anything except my face, but then I'm not particularly hairy. I don't know how I'd feel if I was.

[senordildo.livejournal.com]

What's funny is that gay porn helped introduce the concept of men shaving their pubes, so that nowadays even homophobic frat-boys from the mid-west are apparently engaging in the habit.

Porn has grown steadily more dehumanizing, in direct proposrtion to how socially acceptable and valorized it's become. I fiercely oppose any attempt to censor porn, but I think it's a shortcut to sexual neurosis for entire societies.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't want to censor it either.

What we need, I guess, is a critique of it- not an academic critique (because who reads that stuff?) but a full frontal comedic assault that would rip into it and mock its absurdities.

We need for the 21st century equivalents of the Marx Brothers to be let loose on it.

[pickwick.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I keep having arguments with feminists about this :) I shave or trim my pubic hair, cos I think it looks and feels nicer - I don't tend to shave fully, though - and because I think it's cleaner and less smelly, especially when I have my period. And is less likely to get snagged by my knicker elastic.

I also prefer men to be at least trimmed. It's just a preference, I don't mind either way, but I do think it makes it nicer to go down on them. Wiry pubes stuck between your teeth is icky!

I like porn, too, but I prefer amateur to the shiny, scary people. And otherwise I don't try to look or act like a porn star - my *flatmate* has never seen my cleavage, I don't think!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I guess amateur porn is done by people who care, whereas professional porn is this nasty corporate thing.

Preferences are fine, it's the pressure to conform to certain body types that angers me.

Let's celebrate variety. Smooth people, hairy people, fat people, thin people, young people, old people! Anyone can be sexy, anyone can be loveable (with the exception of Tony Blair.)