Gunpowder, Treason And Plot

[poliphilo]

In ye olden days I swear the leaves were mostly gone from the trees by November 5. I asked Ailz if I were making this up and she said, "No, it's official. It's got something to do with the climate getting warmer and wetter."

Also in ye olden days it was the custom for kids to make nasty scarecrow figures and trundle them round in wheel-barrows, door to door, chanting, "Penny for the guy" or, "Please to Remember/The Fifth of November/ Gunpowder, treason and plot..." This seems to have entirely died out. Today's kids go trick or treating instead.

But bonfire night is still a goer. I was lying in bed last night wondering how many thousands of pounds it was taking to make the night go fizzle, pop, krump around me. The noise started early and ended late and there'll almost certainly be a repeat performance tonight.

This year is the 400th anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot. Parallels are being drawn between the gunpowder conspirators and Al Quaeda, but there's a difference; Guy Fawkes wasn't just a terrorist, he was a revolutionary. If the plot had succeeded it would have been followed by a coup d'etat. This, of course, is supposing that it ever had a chance of succeeding and wasn't, as some historians allege, a government conspiracy designed to make everybody hate the catholics and ease the passage of repressive, "anti-terror" legislation.

Comments

And so...

[jubal51394.livejournal.com]

as they say, "Everything old is new again."

Re: And so...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yes indeed.

I think it might be a good thing if candidates for high office were required to show that they had studied history up to university level.

[bodhibird.livejournal.com]

In ye olden days it was also the custom for it to be *cold* by early November. My desktop weather application is currently reading 74 degrees Fahrenheit. *sweats*

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think we're seeing climate change. Whether we're causing it, or whether it's one of those switches that would have occured anyway I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's for real.

[four-thorns.livejournal.com]

This, of course, is supposing that it ever had a chance of succeeding and wasn't, as some historians allege, a government conspiracy designed to make everybody hate the catholics and ease the passage of repressive, "anti-terror" legislation.

hmm. no comment.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

"The more it changes, the more it stays the same"

[four-thorns.livejournal.com]

although, thinking about it more, it's not like things ever changed. i'm thinking about the sinking of the Maine and the Gulf of Tonkin incident...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

People with power will always abuse it...

[qatsi.livejournal.com]

Guy Fawkes wasn't just a terrorist, he was a revolutionary

You may be right that his purpose was not to create terror, but directly to overthrow the government; some of the al-Qaeda linked groups have mission statements about creating a Caliphate with Shariah Law in the UK, which by your argument makes them revolutionaries too?

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Good question.

I guess the difference is that the Al Quaeda groups don't have the slightest chance of creating a Caliphate in Britain whereas the Gunpowder plotters might well have succeeded in reinstating Roman Catholicism.

[ex-kharin447.livejournal.com]

Hmm, but most of Al Aqaeda's actions are intended to change government policy and in the many cases they are intended to effect change of government (the fall of most middle east governments and the creation of a pan-arabian caliphate is a stated aim).

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

It's a good point.

I guess in my definition a revolutionary is someone with clearly defined and realisable political aims. Some Islamicist groups would qualify and others (the London tube bombers, for instance) wouldn't.

[jackiejj.livejournal.com]

I'm ashamed to say I'd forgotten about guns and glory.

We couldn't do it here--no one can burn leaves until May--too day.

When Kate was young, she'd ask: When will it be my birthday?

Her birthday was October 21, and I'd tell her, You'll know when most of the leaves are off the trees for winter!

It used to be true. No longer. It's November 6, and most of the leaves are still with us.

Maybe I was wrong, but I don't think so.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

So we are experiencing climate change- and it's probably too late to do anything about it.

But perhaps it always was. The earth's climate does shift naturally. After all the last ice age wasn't caused by anything we did- we were simple hunter gatherers at the time.