Basic (Very Basic) Economics

[poliphilo]

OK, so the rich are also going to be hit by the chancellor's latest measures. Good. But will it be proportionate? Will increasing tax on  savings inflict the same amount of pain on the rich as decoupling benefits from the cost of living will inflict on the poor? Of course not. The rich can take it. They have resources. A bob or two to fall back on. That's what being rich is all about. They can take losses without it affecting their quality of life. The poor, on the other hand, feel every cut. A tiny loss in income can spell the difference between eating and not eating, or eating something nutritious and eating rubbish. Take thousands off a millionaire and he's still a millionaire; take a few pence off a poor family and you make them destitute. 

I don't think our politicians understand this. Any of them. They're all rich- most of them by inheritance. Is there a single person on either of the front benches with first hand experience of poverty?

Comments

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm very happy to continue. I feel a similar liking and respect.

How do the poor fulfil their duty to the nation? How does anybody? I think that question can only be answered with reference to individuals.

I suppose I'd call myself a socialist- but of a wishy-washy, William Morrisy kind. Or perhaps, I should say, a Charles Dickensy kind. I admire individual benevolence, but I don't think it can be counted on to alleviate social evils in any systematic way. The society we organized in Britain after the War remains my ideal- a socialist society- with state ownership of the major industries and a comprehensive welfare system- but essentially benign and cricket-loving. Maybe there's a measure of sentimentality involved in this, because I am- after all- talking about the society I grew up in.

I believe our differences are- to a degree- national differences. Your position- which I honour and admire- is one that has little purchase over here. The USA has a long tradition of public philanthropy- going back to the likes of the great Andrew Carnegie. Britain doesn't.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Rugged individualism is one of America's great gifts to the world. :)

A Brit who wanted to do some considerable charity work would be more likely to form a committee than strike out alone.

You gave the world John Wayne; we gave the world the Co-operative Societies. Both are admirable things.

Surely everyone pays some kind of tax. Those who don't earn enough to qualify for income tax still pay things like sales tax and road tax and fuel tax and all those things. As for good works it's my experience, observation, whatever that the poor (generally speaking) are as generous as anyone else. The old ladies who staff my local charity shop (which is run by the church) are almost certainly living off the state pension and/or sundry benefits.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

There is a huge difference either side the pond, I think, on attitudes to this.

As I said above, I come originally from an impoverished background and made good via state sponsored education and further by my own efforts, paid for by that 'seed money' to get me onto an undergrad course in the first place. I taught seriously disabled and terminally ill kids for many years and now earn a crust writing military history. The colliers' granddaughter is now MA, BA(Hons), BA, Dip SEN, Dip MSH, PGCE. :o)

We're not filthy rich, but comfortably off and I feel that I have a duty to those less fortunate than myself and fwiw I'm also an abuse survivor and a member of a badly oppressed minority. While I'd agree to some extent that there is often too much prating about 'rights' and little enough about 'duties' is doesn't stop me feeling that I have a duty to perform and perform it I will, both via taxes and out of my own handbag.

It may sound daft to some, but it means I sleep nights with a clear conscience whilst wondering how some of the political classes manage it!

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

where he calls upon others to use the work of *their* hands?

This seems to assume that rich people are all self-made entrepreneurs who have become rich through their own efforts. Given that many people inherit their wealth rather than earning it, I wonder how you feel about increasing taxes on inheritance and other sources of unearned wealth?

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I gather from subsequent comments and deletions that this question is not to receive an answer (does this make me an "ire-filled creature")? It's a pity, as I've been trying to get some kind of view on this from economic libertarians as and when I meet them, and have yet to succeed.