poliphilo | Holy Scripture

Holy Scripture

I attended theological college in the 1970s- where I was taught that the old testament is unhistorical, the gospels utterly unreliable, the sayings of Jesus plagiarised and the whole Bible (though it wasn't put that way) a crazy patchwork of lies and forgeries. I was then expected to go out and preach from it as if I believed it was the Word of God.

It did my head in.

When I became a witch I made a virtue out of there being no such thing as a Wiccan scripture.

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When I read Lossky, he made a big deal out of the direct revelation of God on Earth through practice of religion. I think that's the best you could do in that instance, at which point, though, I don't see much reason to lighten your backpack and chuck the book itself.

Every once in a while, I feel an urge to preach, which is a strange thing for an atheist.

It's a good feeling, up there in the pulpit, with all those expectant faces tilted up towards you..

An interesting quiz here

http://ffrf.org/legacy/quiz/bquiz.php
xx

That was tricky.

I did less well than I'd expected.

So did I.

I only got 15 - but I got all the ones about sacrificing virgin daughters or other virgin females - and the pagans are the ones accused of sacrificing. Yet we'd only do it if we stuck to the bible.

Biblical fundamentalists read the Bible selectively. Most of them are probably unaware of the virgin sacrifices. The Quiz highlights just how disagreeable and inhumane the Bible can be.

I hadn't the patience to complete it, but I thought it was funny that they mentioned the chariots. Thankfully for the papacy, by the time it was around people had forgotten this weapon against the Lord.

I took it, passed with a 29. Strange, though, that so many quotes were taken out of context, especially in cases where Jesus's message had to do with the setting of priorities. Just a thought.

Yes, I thought the same. The intention was to show the Bible in the worst possible light. The compiler didn't play fair.

My problem was always that I believed. From being a child I believed what I was told in Church. Once I was confirmed I felt better for having communion. Then I learn more and discover that I'm not supposed to take the bible literally - it should be on the level of the tooth fairy and father Xmas - except that Father Xmas seems to have some basis in fact. When I left my husband and my vicar refused me communion I accepted his right to do so.

No wonder I turned away from Christianity - if you ask questions the answers are that you're moron, you should realise the difference between the true bits and the other stuff. B***sh*t.

Yes, I can imagine that would be asking a bit too much. It sounds like it boils down to being asked to make a career out of lying to people.

That's what it came to. After ten years I could no longer do the mental gymnastics.

Mental gymnastics... Yes, that's how I felt when I was trying so hard to be a Christian. It really did my head it trying to simultaneously believe that God became man to live amongst us in the body of Jesus and teach us how to be better people, whilst at the same time Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, totally free from sin, which would redeem us all and turn away God's wrath.

It doesn't add up. The pieces don't fit. It is just too elaborately ingenious.

What kind of "theological" college would teach its students that the scriptures are lies? Just asking...

And then, also asking its students to teach those alleged "lies" to their future flocks?
No wonder religion has fallen upon bad times!

One of the most prestigious theological colleges in England.

They didn't call them "lies" of course. They had ways of disguising the truth of the situation from themselves.

Things had changed considerably by 1988. On the first day we were told that the first year would be spent tearing everything to pieces, the second year would be spent putting things together "after a fashion", and the third should be spent making up our own minds.

I don't think things can be put back together. God knows I tried.

I think it is very sad that something that is so officially sanctioned can be such a tissue of lies - that these are then fed to children to believe in and fear disbelieving.
What a shame that good morals cannot just be taught to children by story and example without these fables that are held up to be truth.
I still feel guilt about not quite believing and I'm in my mid fifties. Now I learn that it's all known to be fabricated, even by those who teach about preaching the stuff! This does feel like something of a revelation!
Jenny x

The clergy who taught me were decent people. They had ways of disguising from themselves the iniquity- and absurdity- of what they were doing.

Christianity is a cult of the dying and rising god- modelled on the pre-existing cults of Mithras, Horus etc, etc. The sayings of Jesus are plagiarised from all over the place. Jesus himself probably never existed.

Google "Jesus plagiarism" and you'll find various sites that list the sources from which the Christian mythos was cobbled together

A theologian. A scholar. A witch.

I always suspected there was something extraordinary about you.

Not perhaps the typical career arc. :)

I think that "after a fashion" expresses that - and the point was surely that it can't be done, and no-one expects it to be done. The part that I don't understand is the "expected to teach it as if it was the Word of God" part. Didn't they teach you anything at all about John's Gospel and Genesis?

The Gospel reading that precedes the sermon closes with the words- "This is the Gospel of Christ", not with "This is a story some unknown author made up a couple of generations after the supposed crucifixion of Jesus."

In the context of worship there is surely a presumption that the preacher will treat the text s/he is preaching on as divinely inspired.

Edited 2011-06-22 08:18 (UTC)

Yes, of course - but recognizing divine inspiration doesn't exclude examining the text for sources - which was why I asked whether you weren't taught anything about what the Fourth Gospel says about Genesis and the Word of God.
Also, now I think about it, it was long before 1970 that I was taught that - probably around 1958. Also, surely you were taught the meaning of Gospel?
That must have been a really weird theological college - did you never think about trying a different one?

Westcott House, Cambridge- 1973-76.

I forget what St John says about Genesis. It would be a kindness to remind me.

Gospel is old English and means God's word, right?

It means "good news".

My friend did Theology in her degree in college - and then (via IT which she kinda failed) made a career as an accountant. I warned her that one cannot serve God and Mammon. She is now dead so I wonder if, inadvertently, I was right :(

Oh dear.

Had she been intending a career in the church?

Not in a million years. I'm not sure why she did it. And unless I discover psychic mediumistic powers, I am unlikely now to find out. I do remember at her funeral and at subsequent gatherings in her honour there were the accountants and the theologians in two very distinct groups...

Why does this sound so much like 1984? Don't believe any lies unless they're from us.....and tell others 2 + 2 is 4 when it's actually 5! But questioning is a thoughtcrime, because it is doubleplus ungood!

"Wicca"? Happy Summer Solstice to you, then!

Orwell was telling it like it is.

I don't identify as a Wiccan any longer- not really. If pushed very hard I might describe myself as a Pagan.

Happy Solstice to you too!

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Holy Scripture

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christianity

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