Divine Madness

[poliphilo]

Richard III is going to be lying in state in Leicester cathedral for a week. Then they'll bury him in his nice, new, medieval-themed tomb. Mad isn't it?

My mother's radio was transmitting the service they had for the beginning of his lying in state. Nice music. And some sonorous chap talking about kingly virtues and how God chooses flawed characters to work his will- like Moses and David- and finally what St Paul thought about it all. And I found myself thinking, "I don't give a fuck what St Paul thought about anything- and why on earth should we care about mythical and possibly entirely fictional characters like Moses and David? It would be as relevant- in fact more relevant in the circumstances- to talk about King Arthur.

Do you think the Anglican clergy believe of word of all the tosh they talk? I don't. That's why only cynical and/or silly old people attend their services.

Talking about tosh I found an hour and a half of Spike Milligan's Q on YouTube last night and indulged. The Pythons nicked Milligan's ideas and smoothed off the rough edges- but the rough edges are one of the glories of the original. Q, I am convinced, is the greatest work of art ever conceived for television. The BBC keeps it in a vault and won't let it out- because its absolute- joyous- contempt for all things human scares the shit out of the middle-management types who run the Corporation.

Comments

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

He's been lying in Leicester for hundreds of years. It's sort of his second home. Also York has lots of attractions already and Leicester could do with the tourist dollars.

Richard III wasn't a Roman Catholic. The medieval church was something very different from both the Anglican church and the modern Roman Catholic Church- both of which came into existence at the Reformation. Richard (supposing him to be still around) would find the current RC liturgy as alien as the Anglican liturgy.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

Might explain why although brought up as an Anglican, I converted to Quakerism in my teens. It was all blue rinse and best hats even in my yoof and no one ever attempted to explain that Creed.

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

I kind of envy the Anglicans, they get the best of both worlds. (Because there are only two, right?)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The Anglican church is fading away but it has an enviable history of mildness (as religions go) and curates a fantastic collection of buildings.

Who knows how many worlds there are.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I don't think the city of Leicester regards the tourist argument as spurious.

I'm rather fond of Leicester- it's a city with a long history and considerable contemporary pizazz that deserves to be more in the public eye.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I like to think they'll let York have Gary Lineker when the time comes.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

One could have a great deal of fun designing him a worthy tomb. Crisp packets- rendered perhaps in enamel - would need to feature somehow.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

And king of England- the capital of which is London. As lblanchard points out, he buried his Queen in Westminster Abbey and- had he'd lived to die a natural death- would surely have expected to have been interred there beside her.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Well, he's dead and doesn't get a vote.

Do you think he's still hanging about, worrying about his funeral arrangements?

More fool him if he is!

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

For essex51: I am not aware that Richard ever stated his desire to be buried in York. He did, after all, have his queen buried in Westminster Abbey. I'd be grateful for a citation, if you can provide one. His actual funeral mass (August 1485) was certainly according to the rites of the Catholic church. Although no records of the event survive, I think it highly unlikely that he would be buried in such a place of honor (the choir of the Grayfriars Abbey) without the requisite service. I also understand that there are Roman Catholic clergy involved in the current process at some point.

poliphilo, I'm following it all with some bemusement -- especially the tendency for the woollier of the Ricardians to become highly indignant over every.last.detail of this process. I'm content to follow the events at some remove, through the after-the-fact reports in The Ricardian and, when one is produced, the DVD.

No doubt about it, though -- it's an economic shot in the arm for Leicester.

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

Oh, you mean Chris Skidmore's "amazing discovery" that Richard planned to endow a chantry in York? Doesn't prove a thing about where he wanted to be buried. He endowed a significant collegiate foundation at St. Helen and St. Alkelda in Middleham as well.

If you have a more specific and compelling argument, I'm happy to hear it, but I'm not going on a Google snark hunt.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Listen, mate,

Laura is a Ricardian and almost certainly knows a lot more about Richard than you do. There's no excuse for this kind of rudeness and I'm not going to tolerate it on my site.

I've had enough. I've already defriended one of your identities and I'm now defriending this one.

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

Thanks. FYI, Richard endowed chantries and collegiate foundations all over England. I'd lay odds, though, that the one in York was politically motivated.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

That seems very likely.

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

Judging from the timing, I'd say they might have been unhappy at Richard's decision to bury his wife in Westminster Abbey.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

My daughter and her family live in Leicester and I have an affection for it.

I may well watch the ceremony on Thursday, but only if I don't find other better things to do.

[puddleshark.livejournal.com]

I reckon, if things get desperate, York Minster can always stage a raid and steal the body... That sort of thing used to happen quite regularly with the remains of Saints, I believe.