A Debate

[poliphilo]

I've been arguing with Judy about Obama's Syrian policy. She think's he's the champion of enlightenment values. I think he's an amoral but self-righteous bungler.

I imagine this debate will run for a very long time. It's what historians are for.

Comments

Re: Otogar.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

not white enough for the blacks.

Is that what you meant to say?

Re: Otogar.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Sold out on a lot of things...

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

Okay, I have to step in here. He IS President, but he is NOT President in a void. He may be Commander in Chief, but he is the President. And there is a House of Representatives and a Senate that tends to disagree with everything he says and tries to tie up EVERYTHING he does, no matter if we think it's good or bad. When he ran for election, both times, there were promises he made. The Legislative arm of the government has mostly made it impossible. He can't ram stuff through, our government is supposed to be one of checks and balances. The way I see it, from my admittedly very liberal point of view, Congress has tied his hands and rendered him pretty ineffectual. I don't think anyone runs for President with the idea that they will do a bad job, even that idiot GWBush. And yes, the business about GitMo disappointed me too.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying all this. I was trying to formulate a similar reply and you have said it well. All of it.

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

*bows*

It's been coming for awhile. I usually withdraw from political discussion because my views are my views, but I've watched our President age at least 20 years in the time he's been in office.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

I have to agree again. That said, I don't think the US belongs in Syria but he has not sold out because he wants to on any other issue. His hands are tied by a hostile bunch of legislators. People outside the US (and many INside) expected magic but the system of checks and balance pretty much rules that out.

I don't "do" political discussion either but sometimes I need to say something about unfair assessments.

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

you and I are old enough to remember the war our fathers fought. And we remember that lots and lots of people turned a blind eye to what was going on in Germany with the systematic elimination of some of the population - the Jews, the Gypsies and so on. I would rather almost any other solution than a military strike. But I do think someone should intervene. Winston Churchill said "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

And that is the extent of my political statements for today!

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

Again, thank you.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Apologies - it's my day for being pedantic - but it was George Santayana who said that about repeating history. Churchill, like Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain and Groucho Marx, is one of those quotational neutron stars to whom the sayings of others regularly get attributed.

The response, that history doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes, is often attributed to Twain. (Of course, there's no evidence that he ever said it.)

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

But I do think the "red line" was a blunder. It has landed him in a place he really doesn't want to be and where- from his point of view- there are no good choices.

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

my apologies and pedantic is just fine. I looked it up on the internet - and of course, we all know how accurate the internet is!

[halfmoon-mollie.livejournal.com]

I agree. I think probably he wishes he could have those words back.

[chochiyo-sama.livejournal.com]

The ones who care are the ones who show the age the most. I think Obama is a caring, compassionate idealist who hoped to be the catylist for change in a nation gone completely to shit under GWB. He can't be a miracle worker, no matter how much he'd like to be.

Personally, I am so angry at the GOP for swinging so far to the right that it is amazing that they haven't toppled over. They've refused to compromise or cooperate at any level. They just spew out more and more and more vile, hatefilled rhetoric that is 99% lies.

My mother, for example, is convinced that "Obamacare" is going to euthanize the elderly. When I try to reason with her, she gets insanely angry and screams at me that she's read the whole policy (I know this is not true) and that I am a fool but I will "find out" as I'm closing in on elderliness myself.

The GOP has carefully cultivated this level of insane fear and paranoia amongst people.

I'm not saying the Democratic party is innocent of all wrong-doing, but the republicans in control of their party appear to be either insane or rabid.